My Fallkniven A1 prize- DRUTHERS...

Joined
Jan 1, 1999
Messages
4,025
Shucks, I' ll have to say that I am very disappointed. I had finally found the chance to make use of my recently acquired Fallkniven A1 that I won on the April BF contest. After a few days of shop use I took it to my Sharpmaker to give it a fine tune. But the common black magic marker method that I applied on the Fallknivens edge shows that it is very uneven! Using 20 degrees on its rather steep angle some parts of the edge is making contact at the topmost part only and none on the rear portion of one side. And vise versa, etc. Some extensive reprofiling is a definite here. But it won' t happen with a Sharpmaker. I don' t have a benchstone, wheel nor belt. Even so, my freehand skills with this size blade would make for a disaster. What a bummer. Mike, Spark, can you help???

Bummed,
Nakano
 
Originally posted by Nakano 2:
Shucks, I' ll have to say that I am very disappointed. I had finally found the chance to make use of my recently acquired Fallkniven A1 that I won on the April BF contest. After a few days of shop use I took it to my Sharpmaker to give it a fine tune. But the common black magic marker method that I applied on the Fallknivens edge shows that it is very uneven! Using 20 degrees on its rather steep angle some parts of the edge is making contact at the topmost part only and none on the rear portion of one side. And vise versa, etc. Some extensive reprofiling is a definite here. But it won' t happen with a Sharpmaker. I don' t have a benchstone, wheel nor belt. Even so, my freehand skills with this size blade would make for a disaster. What a bummer. Mike, Spark, can you help???

Bummed,
Nakano

 
Maybe I can help you but I need to know what kind of tool the Sharpmaker is.

Take care

Peter

Originally posted by Nakano 2:
Shucks, I' ll have to say that I am very disappointed. I had finally found the chance to make use of my recently acquired Fallkniven A1 that I won on the April BF contest. After a few days of shop use I took it to my Sharpmaker to give it a fine tune. But the common black magic marker method that I applied on the Fallknivens edge shows that it is very uneven! Using 20 degrees on its rather steep angle some parts of the edge is making contact at the topmost part only and none on the rear portion of one side. And vise versa, etc. Some extensive reprofiling is a definite here. But it won' t happen with a Sharpmaker. I don' t have a benchstone, wheel nor belt. Even so, my freehand skills with this size blade would make for a disaster. What a bummer. Mike, Spark, can you help???

Bummed,
Nakano

 
Well Nak it looks like Peter is going to be your best bet on getting help in this regard.

Peter,

Here is a link to more info on the Sharpmaker.
http://www.spyderco.com/displayproduct.cfm?typeid=65

BBL

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My A1 came in the white box/ black letters packaging. It is marked VG10 stainless; 60 HRC; Thermorun Elastomer handle; Cordura sheath.

Definitely not a flat grind. By the terms convex/ V grind, we are referring to the edge only, correct? I never did check this prior to having to resharpen it. But the last third of the blades edge towards its tip shows a wider bevel and appears to be convex.

I thought this may not have been a QC problem after all but upon further examination: The left side last third blade edge towards the tip shows almost no black marker stain while the right side shows quite a bit left. The first half of the left side near the handles show plenty of marking but the opposite side shows almost none! I know my Sharpmaker quite well so that is not the problem, thank you.
smile.gif


I' ve read the suggestions posted but I' m not at all sure if I can reproduce the edge angle(s) of Edge Pros work. I' d rather not have to buy another sharpening system and I certainly wouldn' t want to have to send it out somewhere every time I need to have it resharpened!

As mentioned, I am not too efficient with having to work on a benchstone for a blade of this size. What to do, what to do...



[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 05-06-2000).]
 
Nakano,
I'm afraid it is no way to sharpen or especially to reprofile the convex edge properly using Tri-Angle Sharpmaker in way it is designed to use. Of course you can reprofile convex edge to conventional double-beveled edge but it is pity to waste this knife edge's outstanding strength. So you have somewhat limited choice of solutions:

  • 1. Use Cliff Stamp's method - sandpaper over the thick leather or rubber.
    2. Buy another sharpening system, I would suggest GATCO Edgemate Pro.
    3. Learn some deal of magic
    wink.gif
This morning I tried to simulate how I would sharpen the convex edge on A1 knife using GATCO Edgemate Pro sharpening system and I'm sure it would work quite well.
If someone would be interested I could post step-by-step instruction.

------------------
Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 05-06-2000).]
 
Try a smooth steel as well as a loaded strop before you start grinding away. Note that while Sharpmaker is an excellent sharpening tool for some blades, it is probably not the best procedure to make every blade have its set profile.

Sergiuz, I am sure people would be interested in your sharpening method, I would for one.

-Cliff
 
Well, I'll try to describe it. As well it is not the method, I never tried it in real sharpening because I have no problems to sharpen my Fallkniven A1 and S1 convex edges on flat DMT Diamond Whetstone. After I read this thread I thought about the possibility to sharpen convex edge using the sharpening device with pre-set angles. In the basic of my theory would be to replace real convex edge with multi-bevel edge. If the number of subsequent bevels would be large enough it could appear and work very closely to true convex edge.

GATCO Edgemate sharpening system has 6 pre-set angles which are differing about 2-3 degrees. I'm specially omitting the digital values of these angles marked on the clamp because they depend on blade width and/or clamping deepness. Being applied on about 3-4 mm wide edge's area the string of narrow bevels with slightly different angles will make the edge which differs from convex edge quite unnoticeable in appearance and performance.

To check out this idea I clamped up my A1 blade into my GATCO Edgemate Pro and using black marker tied to affirm the areas which should be ground using certain guide rod holes. The sharpening angle forced by the highest hole matched very edge exactly. If it wouldn't match the blade can be placed deeper or shallower into the clamp.
Another similar sharpening system, for ex. DMT Aligner will serve as well for this purpose.

Enough with theory, let's try to apply this idea:

  • 1. Divide your blade length to 4 approximately equal parts (assuming this is A1 knife or similar with 6" or longer blade).
    2. Clamp up the blade in first (from heel) 1/4 of length.
    3. Use the highest guide rod hole work with coarse stone until you'll get burr on the blade opposite side. Work on the half of the edge length only.
    4. Switch to the opposite side and do the same.
    5. Switch subsequently to finer stones until your very edge on half of blade length is OK.
    6. Go one hole down and repeat steps 3-5 creating next (from the very edge) bevel.
    7. Repeat the same with lower holes creating subsequent bevels.
    8. When you finished clamp up the blade in 3/4 from heel and repeat the same on another half of blade length. Try to place the blade into the clamp equally deep as in the first clamping position.
    9. Grinding both half of the edge length use lighter pressure in the area where hones are reaching from both clamp positions. This would be near the half of blade length. This will create the smooth transition between separately ground edge's parts.
Disclaimer: I'm too lazy to do it. If someone will be courageous and diligent to try - let he share his impressions does this method work, please
smile.gif

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 05-08-2000).]
 
Well,
most sharpening systems are made for flat ground blades, with or without a secondary edge and so I understand that people in general are unaware of how to grind a knife with a convex edge.

First of all - if you don´t use these T-clamp systems everytime you want to resharpen your knife but use the standard flat stone of diamond or traditional type, you´ll get a convex edge
smile.gif
,as you can´t hold the precise angle on freehands all the time.

To my opinion, that is the optimal edge for the knives we make, since we call them Survival Knives. And, a survival knife shall be strong and keep an edge well, OK?

I usually advice people to deal with a flat, handhold diamond stone, medium or fine to start with, fine or extrafine to do the final works. Trying to cut a thin slice from the stone will generally make you hold the right angle and make the right movement. Using a diamond stone assures you to get something removed from the blade, much too many stones are too fine! If you´re unsure what the stone does, color the edge with a markpen. After a while you have learnt how to sharpen the knife and next time it will get quicker. Try the sharpness on your nail, that´s the correct place to test the sharpness.

This might not create the 100 % perfect edge but if the knife cuts and cuts well, I think it will do. After all, the A1 is not a scalpell
smile.gif


There´s another extremely easy way of both establishing and refreshing convex edges and I believe both Cliff and Sergiuz have mentioned that method. Do it this way:

Put your morning paper on the kitchen table, place a waterproof abrasive paper or a grinding belt upon the paper and pull your knife against you and from you. The soft base will form a convex, grinding shape for your knife and, depending upon how much you press, the result will come sooner or later. If you don´t know what is happening, use the black markpen again. If the edge gets too round, use half the paper only. Test and try for the best solution.

This is by far the easiest method if you want to maintain the strong, convex edge.

Anyhow, since there are much steel on an A1, the owner can do as he prefers, it´s his knife! If you prefer a standard edge, a system from DMT, Lansky or Gatco will easily turn your convex edged knife into a standard edged knife.

Take care

Peter
 
I have a stupid idea!
wink.gif

Take a decently worn out sharpening stone with concave working surface, work on it like you would sharpen flat ground edge - and your edge will be pretty convex.
 
Thank you all for your continuing observations and suggestions. I think I will invest in a diamond benchstone. It would be more convenient to pack along if need and not to mention a bit quicker for time to time touching up. What size would compliment this blade length? I was thinking a 2 x 6 would work okay.

As for what still appears to be an uneven edge according to the black marker method...

L8r,
Nakano
 
Nakano,
I think DMT Diamond Whetstone sized 6x2" will work quite right for you.
  • Extra coarse (black) allows you to cut metal very fast when reprofiling or restoring heavily damaged edge. Think you would not need it until you would do something very foolish with your knives, nail chopping for ex.
    biggrin.gif
  • Coarse (blue) cuts metal a bit slower but fast enough for reprofiling and very dull edge sharpening.
  • Fine (red) allows to obtain very sharp edge.
  • Extra fine (green) allows to hone your edge to really razor sharpness.
If you have intention to buy only one whetstone - choose fine (red) grit. If you would buy two ones - choose coarse (blue) and fine (red) grit. You can finish your edge with Sharpmaker's white rods using them in bench stone mode.
Note that first time diamond whetstones are loosing cutting aggressiveness very noticeable in each sharpening session. Do not confuse - this is not wearing out but break in. After some sharpening sessions cutting aggressiveness will remain constant long time.
Be careful and don't remove too much steel, with diamond whetstones it is easy to do
wink.gif

 
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