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My Fire Bow Cord Broke

Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
705
I'm doing a presentation incorporating a fire bow drill using natural materials (cord) and have been trying to use one with hemp cord (i think you call it jute) and it keeps breaking due to the friction on the drill. I'm guessing we can use gut? Any other ideas ... better fibres?
 
I use 550 cord.. I thought about trying jute but had planned on doubling, or tripling it because I just wasn't too confident in it...

Best of luck Bud
 
I would love Magnussen to post up here. He has mentioned to me a way of getting the bow and spindle to work together in such as way as not to have the cordage to rub against itself. This is what causes the cordage to break most often. There is a certain tilt to be used, but I do not know how.

TF
 
Hey guys,
Yes, you can tilt the bow in such a way the the cordage doesn't rub on itself. That is the main culprit for natural fibers breaking on you.

Let me illustrate the best I can...

This pic shows the bow cordage at an angle. Depending upon how you wrap your spindle, the "clearence angle" will have the bow tilted forwrd or back. My illustration has the bow in the "handle down" configuration. With the cord running on an angle, it will wander up and down the spindle with every back and forth stroke. In this case, UP when forward and DOWN when back. You can minimize the amount of travel, but you can't avoid it. With a little practice, you shouldn't have any problems.

NaturalcordageFB.jpg
 
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Thanks ... I did the tilt bow thing but as I change pressure on the top cap the cord slips on the drill making me push harder on the drill. The types of drill I use tend to be eucalypt and get really slippery causing the cord to slip more. This was never a problem with synthetic cords but my choice to go traditional has opened up problems. Wet middle section of drill or use sap?
 
can shave the drill angular with edges instead of smooth cylindrical...
also, more downward hand pressure on the drill means more lubrication needed in the handhold/drill junction...

Synthetic: I use 550

Natural: always double up or more when wrapping... Thick, doubled-up, reverse-wrapped jute has worked for me.

But your in Australia, right? Phormium! Also known as New Zealand Flax. You have one of my favorite and tough cordage plants! Do you have any nearby you can harvest? Get the leaf straps, and with a dull scraper remove the outer tissue to reveal the fibers on both sides, clean and wrap!
 
Hey dartanyon:

A couple of things:

-all the jute I've ever used has a strong smell to it ( I suspect preservatives) which seems to make it more slippery than normal natural fibre cordage - I have experienced this, myself.

-use only 2 ply cordage - one ply has a much greater tendency to slip

-increase the diameter of the cordage - bigger than you would use for synthetic cordage

-consider making the part of the drill the cord rides on bigger in diameter and hex-shaped - this helps the 2 ply, reverse-twisted cordage grab the drill better- my drills:

Thedrill.jpg


-an actual picture:

DSC00747.jpg


-this increased diameter will provide better traction between the string and the drill, reducing the amount of slippage - theoretically, this results in somewhat slower drill speed, but my experience has been that the increase in traction more than makes up for the reduction.

Doc
 
paleojoe - thankyou, I didn't think of angular facets to give grip and I'll give the Phormium a go :)

Doc - cheers mate. A larger diameter drill and the hex facet is the go. Thanks for the pic also.

I've added a pic of my setup for the image I needed. I cut down the drill and you can see the knot in the cord. I got smoke before the cord broke on this run.

fbd.jpg
 
I agree.

Longer bow would be good for longer strokes and more rotation.

Your handhold arm should wrap around the outside of your knee and lock in, not the inside.... This holds much better and is more solid.

The posted leg on the hearthboard should be at a 90 degree angle, square, in its bend.

And make sure to have a leaf under the hearthboard notch to catch your ember!

I would also prefer barefoot than flip-flops; too squishy and move around...


Last thing I would suggest, is a bow with more flex. Stiff bows will snap cords all day... Carve out the belly a little or find a longer one with more flex...




Great on the Phormium! You will be pleased with that one!

Keep up the good work!:D
 
You have to be 1 strong dude to keep that spindle straight holding it like that.
One stroke of the bow for me would send that spindle flying if I were to try it like that.

Tonym's advice is good one, DocCanada taught me to wrap my headpiece arm around my knee. This helps keep everything aligned and takes the work off your shoulders. I know, you didn't ask advice about this, but if you use this method you will be able to drill out more coals and suffer less fatigue.

Here is Doc Canada showing it how its done. Notice the placement of his elbow around his knee. I chose this photo because its the best technique demonstration shot I have. Also Doc is using an Egyption wrap method around the drill, which he likes to refer as the 'cheater' method.

DSC_0009.jpg


Here's an beer drinking knifemaker trying to see if he can drill into my deck...

DSC_0029.jpg
 
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Thanks :)
I really appreciate the input. The key elements you've pointed out I'll work on for sure. The picture was taken for content on a double page spread project so I had to manouvre into many different positions to create the right shape while my daughter took the photos. The image you see here is cropped differently to the print image. The bow was made shorter and drill shortened due to prevously breaking the cord and fit objects into the image. While checking out my pics I discovered that I didn't even put bark down to catch the embers. The amazing thing was I was still able to work the drill from many different positions ... although I still had the common problem of the cord slipping.
A longer springier bow, fatter drill, more wraps around the drill and improving my stance are all things I'll work on. To late to re-do the pic though. I've got 9 other projects to finish.
 
First of all, I'm not saying paleojoe or tf are wrong - whatever works for you, but I use a very short bow, compared to most and have no problem. I do this because of back problems and because I find a shorter bow less tiring. My contention is that when using a longer bow, you can be bowing to your reach limits, and when working at those reach limits, you are less efficient, and tire more readily.

The theory of the longer bow is that you have a greater percentage of 'duty' time compared to 'rest' (the time it takes to reverse direction) time. I've found (for me, at least), the difference is insignificant.

I'm not advocating everybody use a short bow, but not too long. Also, a longer bow means more hand-made natural cordage, not necessarily a good thing.

I also have used both stiff bows and flexible ones and prefer the stiff bows as it aids in maintaining the tension in the bow string (for me, at least). I have not found broken strings to be a problem.

I posted a tutorial here before - if you're interested, here's the link.

If you continue to have cord slippage problems, you can always cheat (Egyptian bow drill) - you will need more cordage, however. The string will not slip on the Egyptian bow drill - that's it's redeeming characteristic.

Doc
 
Here's an beer drinking knifemaker trying to see if he can drill into my deck...

DSC_0029.jpg

Respectfully :rolleyes:, I find it somewhat hypocritical of you to cast aspersions on Mr. Magnussen due to the presence of the beer bottle when you completely ignored the bottle of Bailey's at the left bottom corner of the first picture. For your congratulatory toast at being a first-time friction fire maker, IIRC?

:D

Doc
 
Respectfully :rolleyes:, I find it somewhat hypocritical of you to cast aspersions on Mr. Magnussen due to the presence of the beer bottle when you completely ignored the bottle of Bailey's at the left bottom corner of the first picture. For your congratulatory toast at being a first-time friction fire maker, IIRC?

:D

Doc

True enough, but you didn't let me have a drink until after I got a coal as I recall. Motivation as a spur of performance!
 
My favorite bow is a shorty made of eucalyptus, and it is stiff. I like the eucalyptus for its fibrous lateral strength...
My flex bows generally have thinner cordage and my stiff ones have thicker. I see some relation between the size and stiffness of the bow and the cordage thickness. I have a great little Osage Orange flex with some thinner cordage and she loves working the spindle!
On thinner cordage, like the jute pictured above, I personally would use one with a little more flex as thinner gauge cordage with stiffer bows seemed to wear through the cordage more, from my experience....
But I would also recommend going two-ply or four-ply...

Doc is correct, not a large difference between a larger bow and a shorter one - if you know the technique... Notice Doc's 'Egyptian' technique requires a good amount of cordage, more wrapping and thus a stronger bow is required to do the motion. But the motion, even for a smaller bow, concentrates the energy well - again if you know what your doing... With as much cordage used in the 'Egyptian' technique, you might as well carry a larger backup bow and spindle to compare results...

I generally advise those just starting out to use longer bows before going smaller. This emphasizes more on the technique, speed, and stroke. Moving to a smaller one once this is understood. The technique is somewhat different between the larger and smaller. But it may be different for others... If you want to go all-out practice the technique on green wood.

My first bow was tiny. A little compact handheld. The way I learned was with fresh, green willow. This was the way my teachers wanted. I worked that green willow for over a week. This was to emphasize on technique, not fire. On the fifth day I got smoke. By the end I got a faint coal. The willow started off green, but was heat seasoned over time. As I perfected my technique, the wood was being prepped. Finally, when I got it down, the wood was ready for a coal. I didn't get a fire however.

I moved on to larger bows and spindles. A different style was used which was calmer. I paced myself more, less explosive, quick 'rabbit-sex' energy, if you will. More surface area on the spindle/hearthboard, allowed by a larger bow, and I had a hearty coal and fire. As I perfected the tinder/coal/blow/fire aspect, I then went for a happy medium between the two sizes until I found my optimum. I played with cordage types all the way. A thin double ply of dogbane snapping on a dark, cold night taught me the value of thick ply cordage and 550 paracord backup. And of the hand drill.

I only use hand-drill now, as it is more quickly made out in the field and less cordage waste. It is my preferred method, and the method I wish I was taught first. I teach all my students hand-drill first, and then bow-drill. They agree the hand drill is much easier. In groups of three, 100% success the first time. 6 year olds included!
I carry both a bow drill and ferro rod backup in my fire kit.


But what we can take from this is, try it all! See which combination works for you and which doesn't! First, however, work on technique honing and local material (woods, cordages) gathering and use...
 
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JUST what we need... MORE drunks Canadians with fire...
TF

Drunk Canadians are easy, TF.... you could probably have your way with me when I'm liquored up.

... Just sayin'...




We were hittin' the "tinder bong" pretty good too! Check out this action....

DSC_0042.jpg
 
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