My first attempt

E

emr454

Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
8
Hello everyone!

After lurking a while I have decided to take the plunge and try out knife making. Since I don't know if this is something I really want to stick with, I have decided to make a knife out of an old circular saw blade.

I know it isn't the best beginner project, but the used blades are free, and in a worst case scenario I'd rather screw up a scrap piece of steel than a good chunk of flat bar stock.

With that being said, the blades are 1/16" thick and have all steel teeth, no carbides attached. They are ~7" diameter. I am thinking of a very simple design just to see if I've got what it takes to make a knife. I have some 1/4"x2"x18" sugar maple slabs I plan on using for handle scales.

Now for a few questions:

What is a good blade length/design?
Since I cut it using a dremel, will the heat from the cutting wheel(very small amount I'm guessing) require it to be heat treated?

Thank you in advance!

Eric
 
Welcome, you are going to have fun here.

For all the work you are going to spend on this knife, why not buy a good piece of steel?
It is very cheap.
I pay much more for steel here in Canada than you will in the USA, and Precision Ground O1, still works out to about $1 per linear inch for 1 1/2" width.

1/16 is pretty thin and more difficult to work with because of that, but thin is better than too thick.
How about 1/8" ?



This is the supplier that is most recommended here.
Your profile shows as New York and I suppose that New Jersey is pretty close, so shipping should be reasonable too.

His website is down for a short time, so you can call or email.

Aldo Bruno
"The New Jersey Steel Baron"
njsteelbaron@gmail.com






Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v11

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website



Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

Machine Shop Tools-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable PDF


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com


Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
I have a sign at my shop door, “Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Lungs” as a reminder to take off jewelry and put on my safety gear.

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309
 
Chances are that a saw blade that small is not going to be good blade steel. I get where you're coming from and don't want to invest in a test run, but if you buy some 1075 or 1080 for not much money, you will end up with something that may be a crude knife rather than a knife shaped object (kso as often referred to on here). Any high speed cutting is going to generate enough heat to mess with the heat treat, even if just locally.
But for design I would stick to something with a drop point about 3-4 inches and a 4-5 inch handle. But since you are limited to 7" or less maybe 2.5" blade and a 4" handle. Might I also suggest starting with a premade blade blank? Where you just attach the handle of your choice. That's what I did for my first, and it really helped with getting the finer finishing points down. If you really want to cut one out of your saw blade I am sure "The Count" will be along shortly with a post with a ton of links, check out the one with the e-books as one of them has tons of designs in it.


-Xander


But if you do make your own, be prepared for the all consuming nature that knife making tends to be! You can't make just one!
 
looks like the count posted while I was typing. read each link 5 times and then read them again! tons of info you don't know you need yet!


-Xander
 
Thank you for the reply.

It seems to me, from what I've read, that O1 and 1084 are the easiest to work with as far as heat treating. I'll definitely give Aldo a shout and see what he has.

As a college student, I'm a little cash strapped at the moment, but hopefully I can get ahold of some decent steel here pretty soon.

I have access to a 4" angle grinder, a band saw, drill press and assorted hand tools and have experience using them. I would like to be able to heat treat my own stuff, but it may be a while before I'm ready to do that, it would end up being a one or two brick furnace most likely.

I really don't need another hobby to sink money into but I look forward to making at least a couple knives this year!

Eric
 
When I started making knives out of saw blades with a dremel I would lightly score the profile and then break the blade. It didn't always work but I couldn't afford cutting disks often, and it reduces the heat generated... with small circular saw blades I didn't have a great deal of good luck, the old handsaw blades seemed to work better, but hey, if you have time and not much $$$ why not?
 
Circular saw blades are not a steel that will produce much of a knife. It would almost surely require HT after shaping, and that would be a real problem, since you have no idea which high chrome alloy the blade is. The best bet is to use a piece of new steel. The number of Dremel disks you will use up to cut out a saw blade will cost more that a bar of steel. Aldo now has some thinner stuff, so the shaping will be pretty easy.
 
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