My first nakiri

Howard1

Howard1

Joined
Jan 16, 2017
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207
Hi all. Long time between posts. I am making a nakiri for a client. I was able to get the dimensions that looked good to me. The one elusive thing is distal tapering. Are Nikiris typically distal tapered? It is functionally a slicing knife. My feeling is that it would benefit from distal tapering. Regards
 
That’s your choice…

It depends on what stock size you use and start with….
Not all kitchen knives have distal tapers

When I forge a knife out of laminated steel, then I do give it a distal taper. If I make one out of a high alloy steel that’s stock removal, then I generally don’t as I’m starting with a thin enough stock size.
It also depends to me on how wide (height) I’m making it.

Also I would pay attention to the profile towards the tip. I see a lot of western makers making a “Nakiri” with what appears to be a flat profile at the tip. I think the Nakiri benefits from a slight belly at the tip. See Murray Carter work. But here again, this is your choice

Example
 
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I think it's beneficial to have a tiny belly at the heel as well, with the tallest cross section of the blade maybe 1.5-2" in front of the heel. That way, you don't have problems cutting all the way through the food on a dished cutting board.

Like Harbeer said, if you start with thin stock (60-80 thou), you don't really need a distal taper.
 
HSC /// said:
That’s your choice…

It depends on what stock size you use and start with….
Not all kitchen knives have distal tapers

When I forge a knife out of laminated steel, then I do give it a distal taper. If I make one out of a high alloy steel that’s stock removal, then I generally don’t as I’m starting with a thin enough stock size.
It also depends to me on how wide (height) I’m making it.

Also I would pay attention to the profile towards the tip. I see a lot of western makers making a “Nakiri” with what appears to be a flat profile at the tip. I think the Nakiri benefits from a slight belly at the tip. See Murray Carter work. But here again, this is your choice

Example
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Thanks for the reply. I should have included all the details. The blade is 6.5” with a 2” height. I bought 100 thou for this thinking that it was a kind of thin chopper. My mistake. I will use it anyway because I already have the sheet. Based on your reply’s I will be distally tapering it. I had already planned for the edge to roll up slightly as it gets to the tip just not as much as a santoku. I always round the back edge of my knives so I will do that as well. I see that nakiris have a typically flat primary bevel about 3/4” from the edge. On my cutlery I typically taper from edge to top. I’m going to grind it level like all the pics I’ve seen so we will see how that plays.
 
Fwiw, I have a commercial Nakiri from Japan, and it has no distal taper at all. Yes, it is primarily a slicing tool, and so, at least to me, distal taper just would not make any sense
 
I have two handmade nakiri from Japan. Both are made with 50/50 edges. One is a Kohetsu (Richmond/chefknivestogo) 6" in SS on a HAP40 core. The 4" is a Takeda kirouchi-over-Aogami AS. Both are tapered, the 4" even more so than the longer one. Thin, wide edges below very thin tapered blades. Exquisite, yes. Necessary? I don't know.
 
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Hubert S. said:
I think it's beneficial to have a tiny belly at the heel as well, with the tallest cross section of the blade maybe 1.5-2" in front of the heel. That way, you don't have problems cutting all the way through the food on a dished cutting board.

Like Harbeer said, if you start with thin stock (60-80 thou), you don't really need a distal taper.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just learned this one the hard way myself. I need to go back and re-work the one I just made. I didn't add any belly to mine, so any cut I make that doesn't hit the cutting board exactly flat leaves a little piece hanging onto what I'm cutting. It shouldn't need a lot though, because it's not made for rock chopping.
 
Michael Black said:
Yeah I just learned this one the hard way myself. I need to go back and re-work the one I just made. I didn't add any belly to mine, so any cut I make that doesn't hit the cutting board exactly flat leaves a little piece hanging onto what I'm cutting. It shouldn't need a lot though, because it's not made for rock chopping.
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Just a thought on this: the western knife technique of rapid "chop-chop-chop" with up and down motion is mostly showmanship, and can generate pretty rough and damaging cuts to the food. It is also not all that kind to the knife edge. If you watch japanese chefs preparing food, they use, for the most part, a quite slow-but-steady slicing motion, using most of the length of the edge of the blade. I think it was stacy who pointed out last year that both blades and cutting boards wear, and so the probability of getting a complete cut through food with only a chopping motion is pretty low.

If you think about it, even if you have a concavity in a blade edge, if you cut with a significant slicing motion, especially with a final draw with the tip down on the board, you will always get a complete cut.

So ... though i would not argue against a belly at both the tip and heel of a nakiri, im not sure that belly would need to be all that extreme...

Also, some of the examples i see online have the front "face" of the blade, which is often flat and vertical, instead curves backwards somewhat from the front of the spine to the edge, so there is no sharp corner at the front of the edge. I think its kind of a cool look.

I actually have three nakiris in process right now, so am reading this thread pretty closely...
 
Cushing H. said:
So ... though i would not argue against a belly at both the tip and heel of a nakiri, im not sure that belly would need to be all that extreme...
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The belly is not extreme at all, not sure if it is even the right word to describe it. The way I see it, most kitchen blades have a radius of curvature that decreases in a strictly monotonic fashion from heel to tip (there may be a few exceptions, like ulus). I guess we say the knife has more belly near the tip, but there is always curvature at the heel, even though it looks straight in comparison to the tip area. For instance, if you take a gyuto profile and draw a tangent at a point 2" ahead of the heel, there will be a small gap between the tangent and the blade at the heel. Probably on the order of 1mm or so. What I meant to say is that a nakiri should not be completely flat at the heel, just like a gyuto or any other kitchen knife. If you put the widest point of the blade somewhat ahead of the heel for a nakiri, it makes it easier to keep a mostly rectangular profile while maintaining enough curvature at the heel. Like you said, the "belly" is not extreme, the heel can be less than 1mm smaller than the widest point.
 
Hubert S. said:
The belly is not extreme at all, not sure if it is even the right word to describe it. The way I see it, most kitchen blades have a radius of curvature that decreases in a strictly monotonic fashion from heel to tip (there may be a few exceptions, like ulus). I guess we say the knife has more belly near the tip, but there is always curvature at the heel, even though it looks straight in comparison to the tip area. For instance, if you take a gyuto profile and draw a tangent at a point 2" ahead of the heel, there will be a small gap between the tangent and the blade at the heel. Probably on the order of 1mm or so. What I meant to say is that a nakiri should not be completely flat at the heel, just like a gyuto or any other kitchen knife. If you put the widest point of the blade somewhat ahead of the heel for a nakiri, it makes it easier to keep a mostly rectangular profile while maintaining enough curvature at the heel. Like you said, the "belly" is not extreme, the heel can be less than 1mm smaller than the widest point.
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Agreed. What you describe is like a lot of examples i have seen. The amount of curvature at both the heel and tip seems to vary noticeably with the maker though...
 
Happen to be a fan of Nakiris, absolutely concur with just a very slight bevel. Used with a slow draw slice the blade will almost come flush my favorite size is around 2-3/8 x 7-1/4 and heavily tapered. Next one will be of thinner stock with less distal taper
 
Howard1 said:
Thanks for the reply. I should have included all the details. The blade is 6.5” with a 2” height. I bought 100 thou for this thinking that it was a kind of thin chopper. My mistake. I will use it anyway because I already have the sheet. Based on your reply’s I will be distally tapering it. I had already planned for the edge to roll up slightly as it gets to the tip just not as much as a santoku. I always round the back edge of my knives so I will do that as well. I see that nakiris have a typically flat primary bevel about 3/4” from the edge. On my cutlery I typically taper from edge to top. I’m going to grind it level like all the pics I’ve seen so we will see how that plays.
Click to expand...
I made one fairly recently from 0.100 stock, it felt pretty tip heavy so I went back and added a distal. Taper. Felt much better afterwards
 
Nick-D said:
I made one fairly recently from 0.100 stock, it felt pretty tip heavy so I went back and added a distal. Taper. Felt much better afterwards
Click to expand...
I can feel that even this early. I will make the next gen from .08 or .06”. Will save a step. I am also making my first Serbian cleaver. That is staying full .092” thickness. It’s a chopper. Regards
 
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