my knife ... which steel should I choose?

M

mark23

Joined
Jul 14, 2002
Messages
375
hi,

this is what my knife will look like.

Hardanger.jpg


Total length: about 290 mm
Blade length: about 160 mm
Blade thickness: about 5 mm
Edge: konvex
Blade: full-tang

The knife will receive a TiCN (grey) coating.

Handle: Micarta, black

Leather sheath, black

My knife will be made by Jürgen Schanz (Purveyor to the Court of the Bahrain King & to the Mongolian Prince Ganjuuryn Dschero Khan)

I designed my knife according to the following assumptions:

Fields of use:
- Backpacking / Hiking in Scottland and Norway (summer, winter)
- outdoor, survival, multi purpose knife

Requirements
- very good edgeholding, very good toughness
- hardened to 58-59 HRC

However, I am not sure about the material, yet.

ATS 34?
VG 10?
Vanadis 4?

Any preferences concerning the three types of steel?

Thanks

Regards

Mark23
 
Hi, Im relativly new so I dont know what VG-10 or Vandis 4 is, however I DO know that ATS-34 is a VERY good steel and should hold an edge extremly well. Just my 2cents. :)
 
A big blade with a convex edge? That screams for 52-100 steel!!! It's not stainless, but it's tough as nails.
 
I don't know anything about vanadis 4, but VG10 can take an excellent edge.
ATS-34 would also do very well.
 
I think you choice, may depend in part on what steels the knife maker works with.
I don't know what Vanadis 4 is, but I prefer VG10 to ATS34.
Considering the design of your knife, and you requirement for very good toughness, I would consider a carbon (non stainless) steel, something like O1 (AKA 1.2510 or 100MnCrW4) or 52100 (1.3505/DIN 100Cr6) as Buzz suggested, would be a excellent choice.
 
For those that haven't collected big excel sheet for steel compositions: Vanadis 4: 1,5% C, 8% Cr, 0,4% Mn, 1,5% Mo, 1% Si and 4% V. (BTW vanadis 10 is about the same but 2,9% carbon! and 9,8% Vanadium!':eek:'

I'd pic Vanadis 4 over your other steels of choise any day. I haven't had change to get one of it as it is a speciality steel. I'll bet that if it is heat treated well it has by far better edgeholding and has also better toughness than ATS-34 or VG-10.

edited the face
 
In shop test on rope cutting and 2X4 chopping tell me that it makes ATS-34 look as sharp as my vice handle. Out cuts D2 by at least 8 to 1 and out cuts and chops 52100 by 5 to 1. These test are with steels of 61-62 RC while the V4 was at 59RC.(Robert Flat Land Knife Works; rdblad@telusplanet.net)
Click to expand...

This is why I decided on Vanadis 4 ...

Regards

Mark23
 
Vanadis 4 is made by Bohler Udeholm, and is a powder steel, similar to the CPM steels. Should be really good stuff. I pulled up Bohler's website a little while ago and found another interesting steel called K340 Isodur. Decided to order a couple of pieces for a project I have in mind. Problem was, the steel only came in .5" thick pieces! Oh well, I guess I will make my own version of a Battle Mistress. :)

The analysis of K340 Isodur is:
Carbon 1.10%
Si .90%
Mn .40%
Cr 8.3%
Mo 2.10%
V .50%

Should be a good, tough alloy. Kind like A2 on steroids. One other nice plus to this K340 is that it is vacuum melted, and is supposed to be very clean. Like I said, the 2 pieces I bought were 16" x 2" x .5". Should make for an indestructable monster of a knife!
 
... furthermore I got very positive feedback from some custom knifemakers in Germany about Vanadis 4 blades ... the are evaluating a Busse, a knife made of Vanadis 4 and a knife made of Vascowear in Sweden at the moment. I will post their results in about 4 weeks ...

regards

mark23
 
Hi!

This is what my knife looks like at the moment (prior to heat-treatment and coating).

hardanger_roh.jpg


Regards

Mark23
 
Mark23, nice looking piece.

I am curious to know the results of the testing you mention. How can I get these?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Great design! Looks very functional. Did you get any inspiration from Busse Combat? I'm not being accusatory, just curious.

Here are my thoughts on the steel:

I would go with a carbon steel unless corrosion resistance is very important to you. 1095, 5160, 52100, and 01 are all great choices. If you go stainless, I suggest one of the tougher stainlesses, like VG-10.

Again, I really like where you're going with this :D
 
Mark23,
This alloy looks quite intriquing. With that elemental make-up, it sure
looks like with the right HT it will be an outstanding performer.
Can you post the heat treat specs?

I'm sure there's a ton-o-people here who would be very interested in any test results you'd like to share. I know I would!:D
Thanks!

All the best,
Mike U.
 
Hi!

Thanks. I will post the results of the Busse, Vanadis 4 and Vascowear comparison as soon as I get them. I wll also post results of tests I will do with my knife.

I was inspired by the following knives: Busse "Steel Heart E", "Satin Jack", Fallkniven "A2" und "F1", Jeff Randall's "Laser Strike", a Campknife ("Neu 32") by Guenther Boehlke and "Viper" by Juergen Schanz. I designed the knife with my PC using Adobe Illustrator. In order to customize the handle I used some scale models made of wood. After some fileworks on the wood handles I redesigned my handle with Illustrator according to the experience gained with the wood models. The knife is made of Vanadis 4.

For more Information on Vanadis 4: klick here

Heat Treatment Specs:

Hardening and Tempering of Vanadis 4 to 60+/-1HRC (Vacuum Furnace):
Preheating to 850 °C (Convection heating)
Hardening Temperature: 1030 °C, time at hardening temperature: 30 min.
Quenching: Protective Atmosphere (Nitrogen, minimum 1 bar overpressure)
Tempering: three times, at 525 °C, time at tempering temperature: 1 hour. Cooling between the tempering runs down to 25 °C

Regards

Mark23
 
Generally I would advise using a tough steel for a fixed blade like yours (i.e. one that take plenty of lateral stress.) I would stay away from the harder, brittle steels like ATS-34 and 154CM which are good for small folders but probably not the best choice for your fixed blade knife. In a stainless this would mean something like 440A. VG-10 would be nice but is only available in Japan. BG-42 would be a possibility as well for a semi-stainless. The best choice would likely be one of the carbon steels or tool steels. I guess I'd opt for something like D2 heat treated on the soft side if it were my knife. Talk to the knife maker. I suspect he has plenty of experience and has some steels with which he is familiar. You'd likely get good advice there. Take care.
 
Originally posted by mark23

quote:
"In shop test on rope cutting and 2X4 chopping tell me that it makes ATS-34 look as sharp as my vice handle. Out cuts D2 by at least 8 to 1 and out cuts and chops 52100 by 5 to 1. These test are with steels of 61-62 RC while the V4 was at 59RC.(Robert Flat Land Knife Works; rdblad@telusplanet.net)"

This is why I decided on Vanadis 4 ...

Regards

Mark23
Click to expand...


Originally posted by Buzzbait

Outcuts 52100 by 5 to 1? Something does not ring true here.
Click to expand...

Mark,
I agree with Buzz. If Vandadis 4 is similar to D2, how can it out cut it "by at least 8 to 1"?
Do you have details on the cutting tests?
Was the Vanadis 4 nitrided?

- Frank
 
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