My oldest knife, no khukuri content.Pix.

Yvsa

Yvsa

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395
:
Here's a scan of the oldest knife I have. Please pardon the less than perfect scan, but I'm new at it. And I think I know what will improve the scan in future pix.

I found it in a scrap pile of flint that some kids were screening out just looking for the good stuff.
This is in a small cave in Eastern Oklahoma where my ancestors used to live and hunt.
Interestingly the little knife cuts wet rawhide better than a sharp steel blade.
This is the front and reverse sides.
And who knows, it might just belong to an ancient relative.
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I don't think the kids actually knew that this was a knife blade due to its size.
It is approximately 2 5/8" long and
1 1/4" wide and about 1/8' to 3/8" thick. The edges are quite thin and when brand new would have been hair splitting sharp. I find it interesting that the very point is dull and flat, but that's so you can put your index fingertip on it without getting cut and for better control. Another interesting thing is that the bottom cutting edge is thin while the top one is very thick and perfect for a scrapper.
At first appearances it looks like just a rough knife that may have been broken, but in actuality it is very well thought out and knapped.
And a credit to the tool maker of ages ago.

Just thought this bunch would be interested in
it.
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View


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.


[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 02-24-2001).]
 
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Thanks Skag.
And yes, stone blades can cut very well.
I enjoy using the little knife from time to time on soft things like tobacco and other medicinal herbs and plants.

Actually down in this part of the country in certain area's the stones don't have to be made into a tool. The flint itself can have broken edges that cut worse than glass and can take a long time to heal if not cleaned out well.

I thought I had the top one "flipped" so it would match the bottom one, but I must have been in too big a hurry and forgot.
But that's what I get for "thinkin'."
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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Actually, modern obsidian knives are still used in some types of surgery because of the microscopic edge that be made because of the layers fracturing apart.

I also know that a number of Traditional archers use knapped flint and obsidian for hunting arrows where it is legal. One that I read of actually took a fairly large Alaskan brown bear!!

Just a suggestion, but when I use my scanner for small irregular objects, I use a bright colored piece of cloth to cover and leave the scanner's regular cover up. It eliminates shadows and seems to keep the object semi-three dimensional.

Oh, and it is a very nice knife.

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Watakushi Wa Shinajin Desu
DeathDancer
 
Yvsa,

I have knapped a bit and have a healthy respect for the abilities of these tools. Although I can create usable edges, I can’t approach the skill of the knappers who made many of these old tools.

Have you heard of the deadfall trigger called (in modern times) the promontory peg? It is simple, easy to construct, and lethally effective. It was a puzzle to archeologists for some time, as no-one could figure out how it works. Turns out it has to be constructed with a knapped blade. A modern blade severs the wood fibers too cleanly. The trigger holds because the wood fibers are laid over in a particular direction. They fold back to trigger the trap. This all happens on an almost microscopic level. It’s a one time trigger, as once the fibers have folded back it won’t lock again. Ancient hi-tech. Very simple, very sophisticated, lethally effective.
 
Very interesting stuff. I think I know what a deadfall trigger is, but could you please enlighten me Howard.

I've heard that arrow heads made of flint penetrates better(in skin and flesh) than modern steel arrowheads.That should be the reason why people could lay down Mammoths in the days when these large creatures strolled the earth.

And Yvsa,in Sweden you wouldn't be allowed to keep that little knife. You had to report the find and leave it to a museum. Even though some places is litteraly full of, for example, axe-heads from the stone-age.

Best regards
Daniel
 
Daniel,

A deadfall trap suspends a heavy object like a rock or a log. The triggering mechanism is used to drop the object on a prey animal at the appropriate time.
 
Hey Yvsa,

Cool knife! Thanks for posting that. When I was a kid we used to dig into some dirt banks down by the seashore of the island I grew up on in Maine. Usually we just found layers of clam shells that the local ndns(I hope its ok for me to use this abreviation?)dumped years and years ago (Pasamaquoddy is my awful try at spelling the name of the ndns). Well, one day I found a beautifully crafted spearhead(I think it must have been a spear cause it was broken off straight across the bottom and was about 1 1/4 inches across where it broke and was a perfect triangular shape) the two edges still bore the "chisel" marks of the maker and were darn near sharp. It was made of granite, and the cool thing was that one side was white granite and the other side was a dark purple. The color was perfectly divided from side to side. I was so happy I showed that spearhead at school, to friends and even to a few strangers. Somehow it got lost, and I was really crushed. Thanks for posting your pictures, they brought me right back to the sights and smells of that summer day, digging by the ocean
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Any ideas on whether that was a spearhead or arrowhead? Of course I realize that the differences in weapons/tools from Oklahoma ndns to Maine ndns could be huge. Just curious what you thought.
 
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Thanks Guys!
Actually this isn't the only one I have, but it's the only one still in usable condition. The others, like Rob's point, have broken.
And Rob yu probably found a spear point or knife blade. Sometimes it's kinda hard to tell the difference.
Oh, and Rob anyone can use "ndn" or "Indin" however you might get looked at funny if you use "enit, ennit, ainit' or ainnit, in conversation.
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What a lot of people forget or don't know is that the atlatl was used in this country long before the bow and arrow. And most actual real spear points weren't all that big.
The shafs on the spears that was thrown with an atlatl were also smallish and somewhere around 3/8" to 5/8" in dia.
And the ndn people don't buy into the land bridge theory or the newer ones that people crossed the Pacific to settle here,explains a lot when you really think about it.
And that means the atlatl was developed here as in other places.
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Howard I bellieve I read something about that trap on one of the survival pages like Hood's Woods or Jeff Randall's page not too long ago.
And it was something else I didn't know.

Sarge there are places here in the states where it's also illegal to remove old artifacts. Although if I felt something "calling" to me I wouldn't leave it there, but no one would know I had it either.
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And then there are certain places
I wouldn't pick up anything whether it was calling to me or not.
It's my belief that certain artifacts have power and are best left alone.

Thanks Rene, that's what I am gonna try next. My little scanner only takes up to a 4"X 6" object or pic so I'm limited as to what I can scan.

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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
I just think it is fascinating how these ancient, supposedly primitive, supposedly small-brained, supposedly low I.Q. people made tools that seem so simple to look at, and yet are remarkably difficult to reproduce under the same conditions. I think simplicity of form and function are indicative of high intilligence.

Maybe they weren't quite so primitive after all.

rf
 
Thanks Yvsa. Yeah, I wasn't gonna use it in spoken conversation, but it is a great abbreviation for typing. I was asking cause some people take exception to the use of the word Indian, and I was wondering if it was a term that only indians used amoungst themselves. But thanks for clearing that up, I don't like stepping on toes if I can help it
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ROb
 
:
Rob I'm sorry. I was jokin' around with the use of the word "enit, ennit, ainit, or ainnit" not the word ndn or Indin.
Enit and it's companions is a word that's only spoken by ndns and can have several meanings like, "That was stupid of him enit?" or "that really hurt enit?" and that one could be followed by a big laugh depending on the situation. I guess it sorta takes the place of the common usage of "huh", but can have different subtle meanings.
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It's use signifies that you either hang out with a lot of ndns or you were raised on a rez.
Either ndn or Indin is perfectly acceptable among us ndns. And that's what the Elders use so it doesn't offend.

In these days of political correctness there is too much focus on simple words IMO.
Hell every body that's born in the USA is Native American, but not every body that's born here is Indin or American Indin, or simply just ndn.
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It takes a special breed to be called
that.
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LMRRAO.


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 02-26-2001).]
 
Yvsa,

Thanks. I did know you were kidding about the "ennit"etc..
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I agree, too much political corrrectness these days. You can't even have a conversation anymore cause you have to worry to much about every single word you use. IMO, alot of people just give up trying to make friends outside of their race, religion, etc.. cause they feel its too damn much trouble! I think people will get where you're coming from and what you mean pretty quick regardless of if you use the "word of the week" to express yourself. Glad to see the cantina is not so uptight as some places these days
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Rob
 
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Hehehehehe, I don't much care what anyone calls me as long as they don't call me late to supper.
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I wonder how the little flint knife would work on a nice buffalo steak?
I bet it would work great, anit?
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That's the common word the Cherokee use.
The different spellings are for different places, just like people they're not quite the same, but sound almost alike.
Maybe everyone "should" start using the word and maybe cut through some of those artificial lines drawn by us silly humans.Anit?


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Yvsa, I read an article on a fellow who skined and butchard A legal elephant with an obsidian blade! It was quite incrediable!

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Chris B.
 
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