My razors won't get sharp...

T

THG

Joined
May 18, 2008
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So I've been at this for some 4 months now... and I have yet to get a straight razor to hair-splitting sharp. I don't consider myself a novice to sharpening in general; I can get a knife hair-splitting easily.

So my equipment has been this:

1. DMT EF for setting the bevels.
2. Spyderco UF for finishing.

3. I just got a Norton 4000/8000 (but up until now, it had only been the above two.)

I've used sharpie to see where I am grinding. I am hitting the bevels (all of the marker is removed in one pass; this should mean that the bevels are very flat and I am indeed touching the edge.) I can get the razor very sharp with the DMT EF. During the process, I can drag my finger across the stone and pick up metal. However, when I go to the Spyderco UF, the blade seems less sharp. On top of that, I can barely see any metal being deposited on the stone. This is UNLIKE when I sharpen my knives. Sharpie marker is removed from the bevels, incidentally.

So I had a weird thought that maybe the Spyderco ceramic is somehow too hard for the carbon steel. So I went out and got a Norton 4000/8000 stone. It had to be finished with sandpaper on glass before use. So I went through the motions again... DMT EF... Then Norton 4000... Then 8000.

After the 8000, the bevels seem to have a brighter shine. However, the razor is STILL not hair-splitting sharp. It's about at the same point as before when I finished with the Spyderco UF for the past few months. The razor will shave, but it's not a very comfortable shave for the face (no, I don't shave other areas; I'm just saying that it can shave arm hair, for example, but you wouldn't want to shave your face with this.)

Does anybody have ANY idea what I could possibly be doing wrong? Angle can't be a problem, since the jig is "built in." I don't think pressure could be a problem; I've tried everything from heavy to light. I've heard of people finishing their razors with these stones that I'm using, so I don't think that can be the problem. Plus, I use these same stones to get hair-splitting edges on my knives. I honestly can't think of any reason that my razors aren't splitting hair. I'm about ready to get rid of all of my straight razor equipment if I can't figure this out :mad:
 
Perhaps the most important piece of sharpening equipment you can own is a some sort of simple "microscope." The word "microscope" conjures up images of a very expensive piece of laboratory equipment. That's not what I mean. What you need is about a 40-50x magnifier. This is more than a simple magnifying glass; those top out at about 10x. This will have to have two lenses making it a microscope. But you can get something at a hobby store or maybe a craft store in the less-than-twenty-dollar range. This, more than any magic stone or special jig or fancy machine, this magnifier is the key to sharpening knives -- and razors -- well because with it you can actually see what's going on on the edge as you apply whatever stone or jig or machine you have. Knowledge IS power.
 
If you are not using a leather strop then I would guess that is the missing element. I have shaved about 40 times with a Boker Straight Razor that I bought new and I have never put it on a stone. I hit the leather strop about 30 times before and again after I shave and it shaves fine.
 
What kind of razor is it? I've read that some inferior brands just will not get sharp enough no matter how much you try.

I also second (or third) the above suggestions with regards to stropping.

What method of honing are you using? X-pattern is supposed to be the best on those 4000/8000 waterstones.

Lastly, check out straightrazorplace.com for more expertise regarding razor sharpening. Lots of knowledgeable folks there.
 
fotobaerchi said:
Use a leather strop after you using the stones. Maybe there´s some burr left.
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David Martin said:
I like the leather strop idea. Some time on those really helps. DM
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mistrust said:
If you are not using a leather strop then I would guess that is the missing element. I have shaved about 40 times with a Boker Straight Razor that I bought new and I have never put it on a stone. I hit the leather strop about 30 times before and again after I shave and it shaves fine.
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I am using a strop. Stropping for 4 years won't help it. It still doesn't split a hair.

b yond said:
What kind of razor is it? I've read that some inferior brands just will not get sharp enough no matter how much you try.
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I have a Dovo "Best Quality" and a Henry Sears & Sons. I can't get either of these two to split a hair, so I don't think it's the razors.

b yond said:
What method of honing are you using? X-pattern is supposed to be the best on those 4000/8000 waterstones.
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I'm using a rolling X. One side has some smile, so I have to roll on one side, but I pull straight on the other. But it is an X-pattern, yes.
 
strop with a compound before you strop on bare leather. you have sharoened enough, now hone the edge with a 1 to 0.5 micron compound. it will help
 
I like balsa wood/diamond paste to get the best edge and a leather strope to maintain it. I also occasionally hone on an 8000g stone.
 
When sharpening straight razors is that you MUST know the levels of grit (in microns) that you are going through so that way you can be sure to finish on a .5 micron pasted strop, and then finally on plain leather. The biggest thing (sounds like the problem your having) is that you are not putting a high enough polish on your edge. The sharpmake UF stone is rated at 3 microns I believe... no where near what it must be to shave (like stated above). Not to mention you will not have a consistent bevel with the sharpmake since you are free handing it. When I sharpen straight razors, I do it on the EP up to 6000 grit, which still is not enough. I have to strop it on pasted strop (.5 or .25 micron) and then go to leather. Then it will pass the HHT =D hope this helps bro!
 
razor-edge-knives said:
The sharpmake UF stone is rated at 3 microns I believe... no where near what it must be to shave (like stated above). Not to mention you will not have a consistent bevel with the sharpmake since you are free handing it.
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I'm not freehanding it, and I'm not using a Sharpmaker. Spyderco makes a flat UF benchstone.

Looking through a microscope, the problem is microscopic chips in the edge. For some reason, I can't seem to get them out.
 
ah ok... my bad, i didn't understand what you were saying. =) what is the UF stone rated in microns? i google'd it and wasn't able to find much. you MUST know this to sharpen a straight razor. and i'm not so sure that it is your sharpening technique as it probably is that you are not using a fine enough grit (i.e. low enough micron) polish. i don't have any experience with the norton stones or japanese water stones or anything... sorry i can't make a recommendation for one of those =(. hope you get it figured out!
 
I'm not sure about the particle size in microns, but knifenut1013 has said that it's somewhere around 10k grit. People over on Straight Razor Place say that Norton 8k is fine to finish with, even though they recommend 12k, but I don't think that's the problem.

I can get a knife to split hair with the Spyderco stone, so there should be no reason that a straight razor can't split hair. So I'm pretty sure that it's an issue with whatever I'm doing and not the stones.
 
I had a very similar problem with two kichen knives one was Hitachi white steel & the other ATS-34. Both would chip on the ceramic stones, needed about 20x to see it. Switched to Norton waterstones, problem solved. Switched back to ceramic, problem reappeared. No idea what causes this to happen but it does. My advice would be try the waterstones, worked for me. SiC paper, etc. has also worked.

About 20 years ago I bought a new Puma straight razor that neither I nor my barber could figure out how to sharpen. This was before looking at the edge with magnification had occurred to me (and we used Arkansas stones) but I wonder if it was a similar problem.
 
I tried a bunch of different stones (I admit I never put the time in to methodically master each). In the end, I get the best results with the Norton combo and fiinishing with chromium oxide paste on a leather bench strop. I've found it's best to stay on the 4K until the blade can clip hairs off my leg - above the skin - not touching skin. Then I go to the 8K for 20-30 passes. Then test shave my face. If it's good, I go to the green paste for 5-10 laps. I've also had good luck with the 12K Chinese stone from Woodwocraft.com.

Jordan
 
I just go from the ceramic stone he's talking about, then to my Belgium Yellow Coticule and strop on the green rouge .5 micron. This gives a great shave. I get good shaves later by only stropping and eventually need to return to the stone. DM
 
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