My reading of an old knife, what say you?

P

Pipeman

Joined
Dec 2, 2004
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I picked this up at a gun show a couple of months ago. The blade is marked John Petty and sons Sheffield.
The pivot pin has been replaced with steel, the pin is wider on the shield side which I think accounts for the blade sitting against the liner.
The shield reads Osmonds "Viper" Dips, a chemical company making sheep digs ( I assume for de bugging))). The company had offices in England in the 19th century, Ireland and later registered in New Zealand. I haven't found a registration date of the company that would indicate pre 1891 so the knife could have been made for sale in England.
Further inspection of the knife made me believe that it may have started life as a two blade.
The handle pins are almost all standing well above the stag scales. The front scale pin is almost level with the stag, I think these were reset first. The back pin on the shield side was set next and he hit the stag and broke the corner off (a nice clean glue joint can be seen). I think that after breaking the scale he chickened out on the rest of the pin heads all of which have ridges and the shield right near the pins.The other side of the pin sits a good 1/16th of an inch above the scale. The spring pin has not been reset and sits 1/16th above the scales on both sides.
There is always the possibility that the blade has been replaced but it fits the back spring perfectly and fits the frame and flow of the handle so I think it's the original master.

What say you good folks?

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This picture shows the spring pins sitting well above the scales.
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This one shows the blade leaning on the liner.
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Cool knife, Robin!
Does the handle curve a bit, when you eyeball down the length of it?

Occasionally a stag handle has enough "warp strength" to curve a knife with thin liners.

The trick to tightening "proud" pins, is to file some off so you are not having to mash excessive steel into place! Doing this also brings you into a less "work-hardened" area of the pin, making peening easier. I actually learned that from an old master by the name of Stan Shaw, (via a book I think)!!
 
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Pipeman said:
Thanks Jack, a new word, My Mother was a Scot.

Best regards

Robin
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You're very welcome Robin. The Ettrick has a long and proud tradition, and is still popular here today :)
 
That is a very nice knife "Pipeman". I'm not a fan of Wharncliffe blades but that one is stunning. Very nice covers.

Charlie - I'm so glad you said;

Occasionally a stag handle has enough "warp strength" to curve a knife with thin liners.
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That explains to some of our newer collectors/users why a knife can be twisted or say the covres are pulled away from the frame after a knife with stag handles has aged somewhat.

Oh forgot to say to "Pipeman" that the knife along with the "Viper" Powder Dip box make that knife priceless. Just way cool.
 
I must say those sheep dip makers had nicer advertising knives than I've seen elsewhere lately. (There was another Ettrick featuring a different sheep-dipper in a thread a year or so ago.)
I read somewhere that Ettrick was a wool-weaving town and the knives were popular with loom-riggers or something?
 
I'd say it has some very good aged stag on board.

Even in those days, any knife being part of an advertising/promotion campaign (sheep dip, hot :D ) might not have had the best finish. It probably being a free knife. Your theory that it has had two blades may explain the proud pins and blade bias, but, I suspect it was a one blade.

Extremely interesting find and really worthwhile to own.

Thanks for showing it, W
 
Thanks for all the input and comments folks, whatever it's history this is a great old knife. It is now my go to knife for fringe cutting.:D

Charlie, the knife looks "as crooked as a Snakes hind leg" but the blade runs perfectly straight out of the back spring. I thought about grinding the pins down with my dremel but I figure she should be left as is with all it's history intact.

Very best regards to all.

Robin
 
Thats a neat old knife there Robin, Beautiful old Stag!

You sure the pivot pin was replaced?

I spied a Petty swayback the other day in a massive Antiques Warehouse caled "By Gone Times" - 3 levels of Antiues!! I spent literally ALL DAY having a good wonder-round, the Petty knife was in pretty bad shape-Ebony scales, possible 40% blade loss, and they wanted £80 lol - no thanks, I walked away wit a nice old Joseph Rodgers Horn handled Steel ( to go with my many others ) and a William Rodgers fixed blade-that was all there really was.
 
Campbellclanman said:
I spied a Petty swayback the other day in a massive Antiques Warehouse caled "By Gone Times" - 3 levels of Antiues!! I spent literally ALL DAY having a good wonder-round, the Petty knife was in pretty bad shape-Ebony scales, possible 40% blade loss, and they wanted £80 lol
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Splutter! :eek: Where was that Duncan, London?
 
lol - I know Jack - I pictured my self leaving with suitcases of knives-not to be unforunately, but its set up so there were lots of seperately owned stalls right-throughout!!, it situated in Eccleston in Chorley!
I just saw how I spelled Antiques..groan!
 
Great looking knife! I won't speak to the rest of the things you mentioned, but I am with Duncan on the pivot pin. I have seen many examples of German cutlery with a steel pin on NS bolsters. The broken stag could have simply been someone trying to tighten things up.

I have no experience with Sheffield knives, so I can't offer any intelligent opinions on anything else.

That would make a great user either way!
 
It is cool old knife, I don't think it had 2 blades. I used to have Case swayback gent with one blade and wonderful stag handles with the same proud pins.
Mike
 
Hi Duncan
Yes, I'm pretty sure the pin is a replacement, it's much wider on one side than the other.

Hi Mike
I can see it being a single blade rather than a two blade. The peaks of the stag are right next to all the pins and the shield is right beside the spring pin. Any miss with the peening hammer would likely hit both the stag and the shield.

Best regards

Robin
 
Campbellclanman said:
lol - I know Jack - I pictured my self leaving with suitcases of knives-not to be unforunately, but its set up so there were lots of seperately owned stalls right-throughout!!, it situated in Eccleston in Chorley!
I just saw how I spelled Antiques..groan!
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They should stick to baking cakes in Chorley! £80 is outrageous. I paid under £10 for this John Petty.

 
I found one of these knives when my grandfather passed a few years back. The pins are virtually flush with the handle but looks like there was an outer shell that has since worn off. Sort of a beige colour.
 
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