My saw blade opportunity

J

Jason Fry

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
3,160
I just got offered three rock quarry saw blades in trade for an EDC made from the steel. I assume there in the 24-36" size range. The cool thing is, the guy offering them to me worked at the quarry about 25 years ago, and my grandpa worked at the same quarry for 10 years in the 50's and 60's. The place is called Granite Mountain, in Marble Falls, TX. The granite for the Texas state capital came from there, among other things. So did the bar in my parents' house.

Anyway, I'm one of those who is quick to say "buy some known steel", but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make some knives that are connected to my family's history. I won't pick them up till this weekend, but intend to post a few pics here and perhaps chronicle the adventures of my saw blade projects. I put the post in this forum for now, because I don't want to over-encourage the newbie "saw blade" knife guys.

If they're 36 inch blades and there are three of them, that's roughly 3000 square inches of steel, the same as 250 ft of 1 inch bar stock, or 166 ft of 1.5" bar stock. Knock off some for the teeth, corners, hole in the middle, etc, and you still get a TON of steel for the price of a simple knife. Since I'll have so much, I'll likely get it tested and go from there.
 
Anything made from materials with a history is cool, I have a collection of spud wrenches and drift pins that belonged to my dad that he used on the mackinac bridge among other places that I have considered making a knife from, However the mystery steel part bothers me, I would hate to wind up with a piece of scrap metal.

I sent out a few emails to different companies to get a price to get steel tested thinking it would be like $50 bucks or something and the cheapest place was $350 and change for a single test, If you find someone that does it cheaper I sure would like to know who they are.
 
Well, Jason, I wish you the best with this. I hope it doesn't turn you into a junk hunter.
 
Would these blades be made of good steel? I might be wrong, but stone cutting is with a diamond edge on a medium steel disc.
 
Willie71 said:
Would these blades be made of good steel? I might be wrong, but stone cutting is with a diamond edge on a medium steel disc.
Click to expand...

Maybe :) I am confident that I have the experience to figure it out. The guy who has them "made some knives out of them in high school." They're at least 25 years old. So far, that's all I know. I have messed with mystery metal enough to be able to figure it out in a few heat treat trials, whether it works or whether it doesn't.
 
If I remember correctly Fastenal will do a test for you. Again, if I remember correctly they charge less than $100.
 
I've heard similar, Darrin. On my list of things to check out, and we have one here in town.
 
I hope it works. I have been eying my grandfather's plow which is sitting about 1/2 mile from my house. I know where I can get 1075 steel from known sources, but I want to forge a piece of my family history. I like these types of repurposing projects.
 
Willie71 said:
I hope it works. I have been eying my grandfather's plow which is sitting about 1/2 mile from my house. I know where I can get 1075 steel from known sources, but I want to forge a piece of my family history. I like these types of repurposing projects.
Click to expand...

You might check around and see if your grandpa had an old drag harrow. Shaping one of those spikes into a knife might be easier than cutting a chunk of steel off of that old plow.
 
Jason,
That will be fun to cut some blades out of this Saw steel that has a history with your family. Its nice and dry there in Texas,, Those blades would be big balls of rust by now here by the ocean.
 
Abrasive saw blades for cutting stone and concrete are made to be tough and non-shatterable, hard is something they don't want. The core steel is any of a wide variety of steels, most similar to 4140. Much as the history and story of the blades is exciting, the reality is that it is a near zero change they will make a proper knife. Send off a 2" piece for testing before putting any effort into making knives from them ( but it is probably $50-70 wasted money).



Plows, harrows, discs, and farming tools of yore were made to be hard and wear resistant. Simple 1050 through 1095 steels were use to allow shaping by hammer and hardening in a water quench. These steels make good knives if you have the skill to shop-test the material and know how to HT it.

The term "Plow Steel" used in rating the carbon content of steel in industrial wire rope comes from this. Steel for plows was some of the best and most important steel in the early 1800's. Plow Steel was the standard grade, and was about 1060. Improved Plow Steel was around 1070. Extra Improved Plow Steel was 1085-1095. The grades X, XX, XXX, P,IP, EIP are short for these terms.

Saws were made from high carbon steel in those days .... because saws need to be hard to cut things. The standard high carbon saw blade was a long wide strip of 1095 with big teeth cut into it along one edge. This was pulled back and forth across the wood and use to cut timber and lumber. Old hand saws, two-man, and larger "bucksaws" are reliably high carbon steel and can be made into knives with parameters used for 1095 steel.

An improvement was the circular saw where the blade was a large wheel with the teeth along the perimeter. These were usually made in simple carbon steel between 1070 and 1095. Alloys were later added to make the circular saw blades tougher ( teeth broke off easily in the early ones), and the alloy became one bearing chrome and nickel. The common declaration that ,"All old saw blades are L6 is based on this once truth". Today, the teeth are carbide ( or diamond) and the blade is all alloy steel that is high in chrome. molybdenum, and other alloys to make it tough. There is no need for higher carbon content, as this would cause hardness...which isn't desirable in the core of a spinning disc of steel.

The term "old" is used in referring to these items - old saw blades, old farm tools, etc.. The problem today is that the new old isn't the same as the old old :)
When I was a boy, old meant it was probably 50 or more years old. Antique had to be 100 years old by definition at that time.
Today, a car can have antique license plates at 20 years, and everything your dad had is "old. What your grandpa had is antique. Problem is, that dad may have bee born in 1980, and grandpa may be younger than me.

The circular saw blade most peoples grandpa used in the local sawmill was almost surely alloy steel with replaceable teeth. You have to go back a bunch of "greats" to get to a grandpa when the circular blades were simple carbon steel. In a rock quarry, the really old ones ( 1800's and earlier) were mild steel and the abrasive was sand or garnet grit that was pumped into the cut as a slurry. The blade was merely an abrasive carrier. It wore down along with the rock....just slower. Many quarries used large drag saws the same way.
 
I seldom disagree with Stacy, but the family connection is going to make me try it anyway. That, and a piece of recent experience. I have a friend who runs rock saws cutting limestone in Leander, TX. He ended up with a saw blade or two and cut out a bunch of blanks. I had some tested, and it was 8670M. This was a newish saw blade, and this was 6 years ago. Stacy's generalizations, while true, are still just generalizations. Just like "saw blades are L6" was true a bunch of years ago. I can cut off a few strips, grind in a few rough bevels, run a heat treat cycle or three, and know what will work or won't. A "waste of time?" Maybe, but it's my time to waste.
 
Stacy, to add a little bit to your explanation:

I was researching modern farm implements, and much of the steel for plow shovels now is 9260. I have a few boxes of these shovels from my father when he retired from farming. I checked with the manufacturer. Many are using boron alloys, and a lot of the shovels are hard faced. The ones I have aren't. Some of the Asian manufactured shovels are 1055 without the extra alloying. It's still a crap shoot unless you contact the manufacturer. The used shovels can't be identified as the markings wear off quickly.
 
Jason Fry said:
I seldom disagree with Stacy, but the family connection is going to make me try it anyway. That, and a piece of recent experience. I have a friend who runs rock saws cutting limestone in Leander, TX. He ended up with a saw blade or two and cut out a bunch of blanks. I had some tested, and it was 8670M. This was a newish saw blade, and this was 6 years ago. Stacy's generalizations, while true, are still just generalizations. Just like "saw blades are L6" was true a bunch of years ago. I can cut off a few strips, grind in a few rough bevels, run a heat treat cycle or three, and know what will work or won't. A "waste of time?" Maybe, but it's my time to waste.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the saws used to cut granite are different than those used to cut limestone? At any rate there are many that put down RR spike knives but for many smiths those knives outsell the 'good' ones. Take pictures of the blades, write up a brief history of the quarry including where the blades were used, and make the best knives/letter openers you can with the steel. They will be appreciated as gifts (and probably displayed). They will sell well around the vicinity of the quarry (if you keep your price low enough). Let us know how the hardening/heat treatment/steel composition turns out.
 
I heard that Fastenal will test steel for $25 a sample, but that may not be accurate.

I say go for it, especially if you're just making a few knives for yourself. I wouldn't encourage anyone to sell knives made from used steel though.

Do you do damascus? Even if the carbon content is low, you could probably mix it with something and get a usable knife.
 
I got a quote from Fastenal for steel analysis last week, it was $120.

Metal Test Inc. quoted me less, at $86 I believe.

The highest quote I recieved was $240.
 
Salem Straub said:
I got a quote from Fastenal for steel analysis last week, it was $120.

Metal Test Inc. quoted me less, at $86 I believe.

The highest quote I recieved was $240.
Click to expand...

I don't know if Matt Doyle is still around, but he used to do it for free.
 
I had a box of unidentified steel from my father's old shop and brought samples to a heat treater to see how hard he could get them. Some turned out to be mild steel and some ? but came in @ 60. Good for a knife but what is it? I used it for the freebies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top