My Spyderco Sharpmaker didn't work...

glockman99

glockman99

RIP Dann, you were a good guy.
Joined
Jun 12, 2000
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A couple days ago I received a Gryphon M30A1 from a recent trade (Thanks, "Wrangler"!.:)). Since I like my "fighting knives" to be razor-sharp, (and although this one was sharp, it wasn't "RAZOR sharp"), I proceeded to sharpen it on my Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker. After alittle over an hour I gave up as it still wouldn't cleanly cut paper (and yes, I DO know how to use the Sharpmaker), so I gave my 15 year-old Cutlery Shoppe round crock sticks "V" sharpener a "go", and after only 5 minutes with it, my M30A1 was slicing through the paper like it was warm butter.

Sometimes "old low-tech, one-step" gets the job done. :).

...BTW, I now have my Sharpmaker "up for trade".:D.
 
I'm sure the Sharpmaker did all of the hard reprofiling work while the round rods did the easy high angle work and took all the credit. The last guy always steals the credit.
 
Gotta' go with what works for you. Lately, I've found myself sharpening by hand, using a DMT fine (red) or extra fine (green) diamond hone and then just finishing with a few light strokes on the Sharpmaker.
 
Did you raise a bur on each side with the medium stones? I have found this to be a must when I am sharpening a new knife on the sharpmaker. I however have had the best luck using the lansky system and only using the sharpmaker for touch ups. Just some thoughts.
 
Since you didn't measure the angles on the blade, the Sharpmaker, and the crocksticks, you have no idea what was going on. The Sharpmaker only works when the blade angle matches its preset 30 or 40 degrees. Until you reprofile to that, it won't do much actual sharpening. Once you do it, it is the easy way to maintain the edge.
 
I've got the feeling that glockman knows all that is just pulling our leg here ;)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Since you didn't measure the angles on the blade, the Sharpmaker, and the crocksticks, you have no idea what was going on. The Sharpmaker only works when the blade angle matches its preset 30 or 40 degrees. Until you reprofile to that, it won't do much actual sharpening. Once you do it, it is the easy way to maintain the edge.
Click to expand...
That's why I worked on it for over an hour (and I cleaned the hones twice)...I was trying to re-profile the edge to match that of the Sharpmaker, using the "brown" hones...It didn't do any good...That ATS-34 must be tougher than I thought.:D.

However, as I mentioned; Five minutes with the round crock sticks, and the knife was cutting the "test paper" like a new razor-blade through warm butter...(And that was after trying all four hones and both degree settings of the Sharpmaker, with NO change in the sharpness.).

Who knows...After-all, there WAS a full moon last night, I think...:D.
 
Joking asside it can take a long time to reprofile even second rate steel using a ceramic rod hone. A few years back I tested how long it would take me to reprofile and sharpen a very thin Rada paring knife after I had intentionally removed the edge by sawing it into a coarse hone. Working hard using mostly medium grit round ceramic rods at 19-degrees it took 22 minutes. The steel in this case was 420 alloy that felt like it was hardened to around 58 RC. This would be nowhere near as hard to hone as ATS-34 on a heavier blade (I would guess that to reprofile your blade from scratch would take about 4x as long).

Some key issues to note is that hone presure and angle are very significant factors. You want high presure when you are reprofiling. By this I mean high pounds/square-inch. The square-inch that figures into the presure is the contact area between the hone and the blade. To get high presure you don't only want to push hard against the hone (high pounds) you also want to reduce the contact area (reduce the square-inches). So when you reprofile you want to use the edge of your sharpmaker rods or use round rods (which are sort of all rounded edge with no flats). What would slow you down would be if you switched to using the flats on the Sharpmaker rods before you essentially had the blade all reprofiled and somewhat sharp.

So my question is did you work solely with the edges of the Sharpmaker rods for the better part of an hour? I still think that you did most of the work with the Sharpmaker rods and just finished by using round rods at a higher angle. My experience is that the abrasive in the Sharpmaker rods works better than most ceramic rods. As long as I compare Sharpmaker edges to the round rods and the rods are at equivalent angles the Sharpmaker rods cut quicker. And when I compare the final edge finish when I go back and use the flats the Sharpmaker gives me a better edge than the round rods.
 
Meaningful re-profiling on a Sharpmaker in my opinion requires the diamond rods. From there it's no problem. Diamond first, then the two traditional rods and you suddenly have a razor!

John
 
The Sharpmarker is great for most knives but sometimes, strangely, it doesn't work for a selected few. I found that out from experience.

So it does help to have some alternatives handy.
 
I don't use my Sharpmaker very often at all any more. I found out it was doing more damage than good to my poor blades.
Now, before everyone has a fit over that statement, here's my story.

I would get a decent edge started on the knives, but every time I went to put a good edge on it would start to chip. The edge was very very rough and you could easily see chips by eye. I always thought I was just doing something wrong, so I tried, tried, watched the video 5x, tried, tried, still never worked right. Then I read a post on here a ways back, saying the some of the stones earlier on my have had "dimples", pot marks, whatever you want to call them, on them. I checked my Sharpmaker rods closely, and sure enough, upon close inspection it looked like the surface of the moon! :eek:

I read that this problem has since been fixed, and almost all the new stones are flat and true. I just haven't gotten around to ordering 2 sets of new stones because it miffed me quite a bit. All said and done, this sharpmaker is going to cost me 75% of my Edgepro! More than that if you count the diamond sleeves. :mad:
 
For most of my newer benchmades - I find that 20 per side on the sharpmaker is fine for touching up the edge. On some older ones or even on a newer knife with a less-than-perfect grind (my 520a for instance) and on some kitchen knives that need to be thinned out a bit - I use my lansky at 17 per side with the extra coarse diamond hone to get the profile I want, and then use the lansky all the way up the the fine hone to make the edge as pretty as possible. I finish with the 20 per side on the sharpmaker. I have yet to find a knife that this technique didn't make scary sharp.

If you think about how the sharpmaker works - and how little material it actually removes (even with the red hones) - if the angle is anything more than 20 degrees per side - the sharpmaker will take forever. Use anything else to get the profile to 20 or less and the sharpmaker will finish up perfectly every time.

Dann - feel free to send the knife to me and within 6 months you will have back a nicely reprofiled edge that you can touch up on your sharpmaker. Get that thing off the trading block :p
 
Jeff,

Yes, I DID use mainly the edges of the Sharpmaker while trying to re-profile, and also, I DID use quite a bit of pressure, then tapered-off the pressure for the last few strokes (and if you were to see my arms & shoulders, you'd know that I'm capable of exerting quite alot of pressure.:D.). I DO know how to re-profile, and how to sharpen a knife, but for some reason, THIS Sharpmaker just wasn't getting it done, where in a very short time, the Cutlery Shoppe round hones got it done quickly....And I DO realize that it does have everything to do with "angles"; It's just that my Sharpmaker "let me down" this time.


Ross,

Thanks for the offer, but I think I have it "under control" now, as that M30A1 is now what most folks call "scary sharp", as the hair on my right forearm now looks like it was attacked by a rabid lawnmower on crack.:D.

Patryn,

I also noticed that there are a couple edges of the two white stones that seem to have slight "burrs" on them that sort of make a "click" when the blade passes over them. I don't like that.

Jeff C.,

"...it can take a long time to reprofile even second rate steel using a ceramic rod hone"...You AREN'T calling ATS-34 a "second rate steel", are you?.:eek:.
 
I'm calling the 420-J2 used in the Rada knife I tested "second rate". I was surprised by how hard they got their 420 and that may also have increased my honing time, but I would rate it easy to hone. I consider ATS-34 a "first class pain in the ass" steel. It is a pain to sharpen and I don't like the edge that I get when I am finished. I consider BG42 a true first class steel. It takes extra work to sharpen, but you get a superior edge when you are done, particularly compared to ATS-34. When I bought my Camillus EDC with recurved 154CM blade I eventually bought an oval cross-section rod diamond hone to reprofile it. I just wasn't getting where I wanted to go with ceramic rods.
 
jmxcpter said:
Meaningful re-profiling on a Sharpmaker in my opinion requires the diamond rods. From there it's no problem. Diamond first, then the two traditional rods and you suddenly have a razor!

John
Click to expand...

That has been my experience as well. I had an old kitchen knife that I've had sharpening problems with for years--some "quality time" with the diamond rods and the knife has seen new life. It now retains a razor edge with just touch-ups with the ceramic hones.
 
If you try to sharpen a knife on the sharpmaker and it doesn't respond in less than a minute, use something else. V-rod setups of any kind are horrible for that. Grind the edge down with a file made from coarse sandpaper and hardwood (or plastic or whatever), and then put the final micro-bevel on with the Sharpmaker or other v-rod, which should take 30 s or less.

If you want to make an "efficient" v-rod which sharpens almost any knife NIb without reprofiling, just set the rods at 30-35 degrees per side. These will put a micro-bevel on any knife I have seen so far. Then when you get a chance, hack off the primary edge and add a relief with a file, coarse stone. The other v-rod is likely just at a more obtuse angle and thus hits the very edge quicker.

Switching angles, rods, etc., does nothing, if the 20 and the medium settings don't do anything, nothing else works, so you try that first on a new blade, check the angle with a marker, which takes ~10 seconds. If you hit above the edge then either decide to spend an hour wasting time, or hack the bevel off with something else, and then *sharpen* with the Sharpmaker, shaping is not its job.

-Cliff
 
In regards to buying new rods, if you bought ones that were defective, return them and ask for new ones. You should not have to buy another set.

-Cliff
 
Damn, when Cliff is done with a topic there is really not much to add!
:)
 
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