My strange sharpening experience (154 cm vs vg10).

K

kwik9

Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
139
For some reason, I can get a better edge on my Emerson 154 cm than I can on my Spyderco vg10 using the same Sharpmaker, same rods, same techniques, same etc.
Does this seem weird? Shouldn't vg10 be easier to sharpen? Do I need to treat the vg10 differently?
 
VG-10 (on Spyderco knives) has one major 'pet peeve' for me. It forms some very stubborn wire edges, especially on ceramic hones like the Sharpmaker. It's much worse in this respect than any other steel I've seen (including ATS-34/154CM). Once the wires form, they fold over to one side or the other, and will keep the edge feeling dull/blunt. They take a lot of work to remove them, so the best strategy is to try to minimize how big they get in the first place.

To minimize the formation of burrs while sharpening VG-10, go very, very light on pressure. Especially if using the corners of the SM rods, which will concentrate pressure in a very small area on the edge. And to remove them after the fact, I usually 'file' them away with edge-leading strokes at very light pressure, at a slightly elevated angle.

VG-10 is a great steel, especially if heat-treated to somewhat higher RC (60+). If the hardness is somewhere even slightly lower, as I suspect it may be on Spyderco knives, the wire edges are very stubborn on this steel. At higher hardness, as with most/all steels, the wire edges will be a little easier to break off.
 
Every steel sharpens differently for me and seems to like different cutting angles and thicknesses behind the bevel. I'll experiment with different angles and techniques until I can get the edge exactly like I want it, which usually is scary sharp. 154CM behaved very oddly for me. I just got a Greg Lightfoot flipper and the blade was extremely thin in the belly and the bevel just didn't have much material behind it. It didn't cut very well at all where the blade was so thin. I tried stones, a strop, nothing would make it scary sharp. I finally put it on a paper wheel which removed some of the thinnest part of the blade, where I could see about 2 millimeters of beveled edge then. The paper wheel put a scary sharp edge on the knife. I was completely flummoxed before that as nothing was working.

With VG-10 blades from Spyderco and Shun, I've established a known angle with my EdgePro, and cut an edge from 200 grit stones and working down to 10,000 grit. Then I finish off by stropping down to pink compound. That leaves a mirror edge that is scary sharp. To maintain the edge, I'll strop it again for a few minutes every week or two. I suspect this method would definitely work for your Emerson, where you set the edge angle with a system where the angle is mechanically fixed and not left up to hand movement error. Set it to whatever proves to be the best cutting angle for the geometry of that knife, be it 15*, 17*, 19*, 21* or whatever. Sharpen it down to 1 to 2 micron grit stones, then strop it down to 0.1 micron compound. It should be ridiculously sharp then.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
VG-10 (on Spyderco knives) has one major 'pet peeve' for me. It forms some very stubborn wire edges, especially on ceramic hones like the Sharpmaker. It's much worse in this respect than any other steel I've seen (including ATS-34/154CM). Once the wires form, they fold over to one side or the other, and will keep the edge feeling dull/blunt. They take a lot of work to remove them, so the best strategy is to try to minimize how big they get in the first place.

To minimize the formation of burrs while sharpening VG-10, go very, very light on pressure. Especially if using the corners of the SM rods, which will concentrate pressure in a very small area on the edge. And to remove them after the fact, I usually 'file' them away with edge-leading strokes at very light pressure, at a slightly elevated angle.

VG-10 is a great steel, especially if heat-treated to somewhat higher RC (60+). If the hardness is somewhere even slightly lower, as I suspect it may be on Spyderco knives, the wire edges are very stubborn on this steel. At higher hardness, as with most/all steels, the wire edges will be a little easier to break off.
Click to expand...

You are probably right, I bet that wire edge is my problem. I will check it out. Thanks!
 
Thats weird you say that, Ive had trouble getting good edges on my delica but I get fine edges on other steels.

Ive never understood it myself.
 
I've noticed the same thing obsessed with edges with my VG-10 Dragonfly. It took me a bit longer than expected to remove the burr.

Ric
 
When you're on your highest grit stone, try making 1 pass on each side like 10-20(roughly) times, back and forth, back and forth, with very very light pressure. That usually works if you get a stubborn burr... whether you have a burr or not, try finish sharpening all your knives like this. I do the same thing and they come off the stone hair whittling sharp every time.
 
I'd just like to add that Emerson runs their 154 pretty soft, so it's not surprising that the VG10 knife would take a bit longer to sharpen.
 
I'm thinking the different edge angles of the two knives is more important, in this instance, than the different steels.

By that, I mean you may be hitting the apex with one knife, but only hitting the shoulder with the other knife.
 
Nullity said:
I'm thinking the different edge angles of the two knives is more important, in this instance, than the different steels.

By that, I mean you may be hitting the apex with one knife, but only hitting the shoulder with the other knife.
Click to expand...

I understand the concerns, but that's not the case. I really think it is the wire-edge burr on the vg10 that I need to pay attention to.
 
1badcj_7 said:
When you're on your highest grit stone, try making 1 pass on each side like 10-20(roughly) times, back and forth, back and forth, with very very light pressure. That usually works if you get a stubborn burr... whether you have a burr or not, try finish sharpening all your knives like this. I do the same thing and they come off the stone hair whittling sharp every time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip.
 
This is just like the experience I also had with VG-10, and the Sharpmaker. I could not get my Caly 3 sharp for nutt'n !
Then remembering all the advice about using lite pressure with the S M system, I did the exact same thing 1badcj_7 described, and BANG ! There was the edge I was looking for.
 
It's tough to get the burr off VG-10, judging by my F1. But it does hold an edge, and it has a 'bite' like D2 or S30V, possibly due to largish carbides.
 
right now my ffg delica vg-10 is out-cutting my endura zdp 189 and military s30v for the simple reason it's easier to touch up. but the zdp really holds an edge longer. it's just a bore to sharpen once dulled.
 
I use edge leading stroke into a dmt EEF to deburr all my knives (S30v, D2, zdp, vg-10, 440*, 420hc, AS, v2, blue, white, carbon, etc..). Knives with low/acute angle bevel where burr/wire usually harder to get rid off, in those cases, I raise 5* to 10* to angle + low pressure to knock burr/wire off (no more glints in bright light). Sometime a burr from 1K waterstone is too tough, I use dmt F at raise angle to knock them off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top