- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
I respectfully ask everyone to read this whole post before making any judgments. As we have already proven a few days ago, things are not always as they seem, okay?
Many Thanks.
You may need some popcorn and a brew though.
Well if I have a choice I would rather pay a little bit more and get the best of both worlds.
At least on the two I want to order.
I really believe that Bura or any of the rest of the kamis can hammer the knife out to 98% as I have had the opportunity to see what kind of work that comes off the forges with the Chainpuri and Hanuman as forged blades I bought.
Not a whole lot of work was left to finish either one if it wasn't for me wanting something a little fancier that I did myself.
If I had made both knives to specs it wouldn't have taken me nearly as long as it did on the Chainpuri that I fancied out. (The Hanuman still isn't finished.)
I feel the situation is the same with the Cherokee Rose since at one time when BirGhorka was just started and called Shop 2 all of the khukuris had the blade and edge style the Cherokee Rose is supposed to have, as made according to the wooden model.
If everyone else wants one just like the prototype I have no objections to that.
It's just that I know what the kamis and especially Bura is capable of doing and I know any of the BirGhorka kamis has the ability to and can make the Cherokee Rose exactly to specs without any, or at least not much additional cost, after all the original khukuri blades made at Shop 2 for quite a while were that way. {shrug}
The prototype really isn't bad at all....................For a production run........Not bad At All!!!!!!! If it's what everyone else wants then I give it my blessing. It is indeed a very fine Bowie IMO.........
It just isn't all that it can be in the production model prototype Bura made IMO.
Remember the Cherokee Rose is my conception....................
QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Martino
Bura is thinking about production, I'm certain. He doesn't want to drill a curved hole in the handle so he straightened it out and he wants to get as much of the blade work done with machines as he can. He's thinking cost and that's not bad. He's coming as close as he can while still keeping the cost down. We would rather sell this knife for $200 than $500 and Bura is trying to do just this. Everything is a trade off but we'll maintain the quality no matter what the final design looks like.
But I'm revising my original model vs steel to 85 or 90 percent. I'll keep my quality estimate at 98%. [/QUOTE]{
}
I'm combining the two posts above made by Bro/Uncle Bill as Bro was backing up when he needn't have!!!!
And I can appreciate Bro's/Uncle Bill's defense of Bura, I just don't think it was needed.
I put the blade on the steel model at 90%, but everything else is damned nigh perfect!!!!IMO!!!!!
The quality is definitely 98%!!!!!!!
Bro the Cherokee Rose doesn't need to have a curved hole in the handle. The hole I drilled in the handle for the model wasn't curved, except maybe as an imperfection where I couldn't hold it perfectly straight from both ends, trying to make the hole meet in the middle.
I tried to drill it as straight as possible and it wasn't too far off.
And the handle is one of the misconceptions!!!! Bura could Not Have made it any Closer or Better if I had been there to instruct Bura in Person!!!!!
The Cherokee Rose's Handle is just damned near as perfect as any man can make it!!!!!
If the blade was as close as the handle I would be hollering WOO WOO HOO So Damned Loud all of y'all could hear me!!!!!
I cannot say enough good things about Bura's reproduction of my handle!!!!!
There's only three critique I have about the handle is that there's some marks in the side of the wood that's gonna make the handle a little smaller when I sand them out so I would ask that the handle be made just a Tiny Little Bit Bigger.
I know if Bro/Uncle Bill tells the kamis to make it just a little bigger that the handles will be like the damned Salyan's were!!!!
The next critique is that where the wood extends up the guard it needs to go just a tiny bit more there too.
The other critique is that a little thicker keeper be put on the back of the handle. This one is pretty damned thin.......
Of course the prototype didn't have the complimentary 4 coats of polyurethane on it let alone sanded down to a nice even 220 grit all over like the wooden model did.
This is another of Bro's/Uncle Bill's misunderstandings. Yes the guard is pretty heavy.
But where does one draw the line?
You have to have a certain amount of weight towards the rear or a pretty good honkin sized pommel to offset the heavy blade.
Taking any weight off the guard by making it smaller would defeat its purpose.
Now if the blade is made to the wooden model's spec's I'm pretty damned sure the balance is gonna improve a little as well, more about that later on..........
Bro I thank you for the puja always. It was really needed at the time as always but much more and it was an emergency. I always appreciate all the prayers that are said for me no matter where they are from.
Bro I'm gonna ask if you will at least get the two Cherokee Roses I want, made as close as possible to the wooden model. It's pretty important to me for more reasons than one and for reasons I can't/won't get into on here, but I believe you know why as I've told you my plans.
I'm willing to pay for any difference and I think you know that.
Getting the Cherokee Rose done accurately to the model is very important to me!!!!!
Well Bro I hate to tell you this, but yes damn-it, we are gonna have to fine tune the sheath as well.
The damned Sarkis aren't any better than the kamis when it comes to improvements!!!!
Guys & Gals the sheath is the Surprise. I made a model out of cardboard in order to get something more conventional and also thinking of the southpaws among us I designed it so the frog can be slid off the end and the sheath reversed and the frog slid back on making it a left handed sheath.
I call it a sheath since it's all leather and soft except for the chape. It is very well made IMO.
Scabbards are hard and impenetrable by the blade, supposedly.
The problem is that the Sarkis wanted to improve the looks of the sheath I guess and instead of making the sheath perfectly straight from the band that keeps the frog in place they curved the leather out to portray the shape of the blade.
It's not much, just enough to prevent the frog from sliding off like it's supposed to.
Since it's a one time deal most of the time changing the frog from one side to another, unless someone just wanted to carry on the left side, it's not that big of a deal to loosen the lace and change it over.
It would be easier if it was made straight up and down though as designed.
Damned Nepalis can't leave anything well enough alone!!!!!
{Shrug}
I know this is getting long so I will try to hurry the rest.
The blade is well hardened except that Bura was thinking khukuri instead of Bowie in that the point is to soft for a Bowie.
The clip isn't hardened all that much if any either.
Consequently the point and clip both need to be as hard as the rest of the edge if possible. I know that any of the kamis can do better than the prototype's hardness in these areas.
I believe the HIKK was hardened perfectly?
They just need to think "Western Knife" instead of khukuri.
I say that most of the edge is right around 60 Rc as my new file wouldn't cut it, just slides off.
The POB is 2 1/2 inches from the guard. I would rather had it right at the guard or within a 1/2 inch either way, but it ain't gonna happen with a blade this wide.
Surprisingly to me the Cherokee Rose doesn't really feel all that heavy. It likes 1 ounce being exactly 2 pounds and I most certainly wouldn't have thought so, still don't when it's in my hand, perhaps it's because I'm used to the heavier khukuris?
I'm not a martial artist so I don't know all the fancy grips and all, but the knife changes well for me not only from hand to hand but from grip to grip that I use.
And at 20 1/2 inches overall length it is one big Honkin Bowie.
Just like a good Okie Indin Knife oughta be!!!!
I can hear just the guys in camp now comparing a man's knife size to other parts of his anatomy.
What are they gonna do when they wanna borrow the Rose to do some work with?
Edit:
Well shuckey durn!!!! I thought I could edit and put up the pic I forgot earlier. I guess that means another post. :-(
Many Thanks.
You may need some popcorn and a brew though.
Well if I have a choice I would rather pay a little bit more and get the best of both worlds.
At least on the two I want to order.
I really believe that Bura or any of the rest of the kamis can hammer the knife out to 98% as I have had the opportunity to see what kind of work that comes off the forges with the Chainpuri and Hanuman as forged blades I bought.
Not a whole lot of work was left to finish either one if it wasn't for me wanting something a little fancier that I did myself.
If I had made both knives to specs it wouldn't have taken me nearly as long as it did on the Chainpuri that I fancied out. (The Hanuman still isn't finished.)
I feel the situation is the same with the Cherokee Rose since at one time when BirGhorka was just started and called Shop 2 all of the khukuris had the blade and edge style the Cherokee Rose is supposed to have, as made according to the wooden model.
If everyone else wants one just like the prototype I have no objections to that.
It's just that I know what the kamis and especially Bura is capable of doing and I know any of the BirGhorka kamis has the ability to and can make the Cherokee Rose exactly to specs without any, or at least not much additional cost, after all the original khukuri blades made at Shop 2 for quite a while were that way. {shrug}
The prototype really isn't bad at all....................For a production run........Not bad At All!!!!!!! If it's what everyone else wants then I give it my blessing. It is indeed a very fine Bowie IMO.........
It just isn't all that it can be in the production model prototype Bura made IMO.
Remember the Cherokee Rose is my conception....................
QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Martino
Bura is thinking about production, I'm certain. He doesn't want to drill a curved hole in the handle so he straightened it out and he wants to get as much of the blade work done with machines as he can. He's thinking cost and that's not bad. He's coming as close as he can while still keeping the cost down. We would rather sell this knife for $200 than $500 and Bura is trying to do just this. Everything is a trade off but we'll maintain the quality no matter what the final design looks like.
But I'm revising my original model vs steel to 85 or 90 percent. I'll keep my quality estimate at 98%. [/QUOTE]{
}
I'm combining the two posts above made by Bro/Uncle Bill as Bro was backing up when he needn't have!!!!
And I can appreciate Bro's/Uncle Bill's defense of Bura, I just don't think it was needed.
I put the blade on the steel model at 90%, but everything else is damned nigh perfect!!!!IMO!!!!!
The quality is definitely 98%!!!!!!!
Bro the Cherokee Rose doesn't need to have a curved hole in the handle. The hole I drilled in the handle for the model wasn't curved, except maybe as an imperfection where I couldn't hold it perfectly straight from both ends, trying to make the hole meet in the middle.
I tried to drill it as straight as possible and it wasn't too far off.
And the handle is one of the misconceptions!!!! Bura could Not Have made it any Closer or Better if I had been there to instruct Bura in Person!!!!!
The Cherokee Rose's Handle is just damned near as perfect as any man can make it!!!!!
If the blade was as close as the handle I would be hollering WOO WOO HOO So Damned Loud all of y'all could hear me!!!!!
I cannot say enough good things about Bura's reproduction of my handle!!!!!
There's only three critique I have about the handle is that there's some marks in the side of the wood that's gonna make the handle a little smaller when I sand them out so I would ask that the handle be made just a Tiny Little Bit Bigger.
I know if Bro/Uncle Bill tells the kamis to make it just a little bigger that the handles will be like the damned Salyan's were!!!!
The next critique is that where the wood extends up the guard it needs to go just a tiny bit more there too.
The other critique is that a little thicker keeper be put on the back of the handle. This one is pretty damned thin.......
Of course the prototype didn't have the complimentary 4 coats of polyurethane on it let alone sanded down to a nice even 220 grit all over like the wooden model did.
This is another of Bro's/Uncle Bill's misunderstandings. Yes the guard is pretty heavy.
But where does one draw the line?
You have to have a certain amount of weight towards the rear or a pretty good honkin sized pommel to offset the heavy blade.
Taking any weight off the guard by making it smaller would defeat its purpose.
Now if the blade is made to the wooden model's spec's I'm pretty damned sure the balance is gonna improve a little as well, more about that later on..........
Bro I thank you for the puja always. It was really needed at the time as always but much more and it was an emergency. I always appreciate all the prayers that are said for me no matter where they are from.
Bro I'm gonna ask if you will at least get the two Cherokee Roses I want, made as close as possible to the wooden model. It's pretty important to me for more reasons than one and for reasons I can't/won't get into on here, but I believe you know why as I've told you my plans.
I'm willing to pay for any difference and I think you know that.
Getting the Cherokee Rose done accurately to the model is very important to me!!!!!
Well Bro I hate to tell you this, but yes damn-it, we are gonna have to fine tune the sheath as well.
The damned Sarkis aren't any better than the kamis when it comes to improvements!!!!
Guys & Gals the sheath is the Surprise. I made a model out of cardboard in order to get something more conventional and also thinking of the southpaws among us I designed it so the frog can be slid off the end and the sheath reversed and the frog slid back on making it a left handed sheath.
I call it a sheath since it's all leather and soft except for the chape. It is very well made IMO.
Scabbards are hard and impenetrable by the blade, supposedly.
The problem is that the Sarkis wanted to improve the looks of the sheath I guess and instead of making the sheath perfectly straight from the band that keeps the frog in place they curved the leather out to portray the shape of the blade.
It's not much, just enough to prevent the frog from sliding off like it's supposed to.
Since it's a one time deal most of the time changing the frog from one side to another, unless someone just wanted to carry on the left side, it's not that big of a deal to loosen the lace and change it over.
It would be easier if it was made straight up and down though as designed.
Damned Nepalis can't leave anything well enough alone!!!!!
{Shrug}I know this is getting long so I will try to hurry the rest.
The blade is well hardened except that Bura was thinking khukuri instead of Bowie in that the point is to soft for a Bowie.
The clip isn't hardened all that much if any either.
Consequently the point and clip both need to be as hard as the rest of the edge if possible. I know that any of the kamis can do better than the prototype's hardness in these areas.
I believe the HIKK was hardened perfectly?
They just need to think "Western Knife" instead of khukuri.
I say that most of the edge is right around 60 Rc as my new file wouldn't cut it, just slides off.
The POB is 2 1/2 inches from the guard. I would rather had it right at the guard or within a 1/2 inch either way, but it ain't gonna happen with a blade this wide.
Surprisingly to me the Cherokee Rose doesn't really feel all that heavy. It likes 1 ounce being exactly 2 pounds and I most certainly wouldn't have thought so, still don't when it's in my hand, perhaps it's because I'm used to the heavier khukuris?
I'm not a martial artist so I don't know all the fancy grips and all, but the knife changes well for me not only from hand to hand but from grip to grip that I use.
And at 20 1/2 inches overall length it is one big Honkin Bowie.
Just like a good Okie Indin Knife oughta be!!!!
I can hear just the guys in camp now comparing a man's knife size to other parts of his anatomy.
What are they gonna do when they wanna borrow the Rose to do some work with?
Edit:
Well shuckey durn!!!! I thought I could edit and put up the pic I forgot earlier. I guess that means another post. :-(
