My V-Grind is not a V-Grind.

B

bodromarsh

Joined
Sep 7, 2006
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I am looking at three Emerson knives. A foling Combat Karambit, a Mini-Commander, and a CQC-11. According to the EKI website the Karambit is chisel grind, and the other two are V-Grind.

Well, all three are chisel grind. On the side of the blade with the logo, the blade is obviously ground. On the back side you can see a tiny bit of shiny silver on all three.

So, something does not add up. Either the EKI website is wrong, or the EKI factory is not V-Grinding what they are supposed to be.
 
You have to realize that with Emerson when they are referring to the
"grind" they are speaking of the primary grind. On knives like the CQC7A, 8, 10, 12, 14 and the Commander models and perhaps a few others the primary grind is a V grind.

However the cutting edge is still one side only. Don't get me started. Ernie is very stubborn about it, insists its easier to sharpen, and all that which I just don't agree with.

It probably makes for faster production of the blades doing them that way and from the stand point of manufacturing I'm sure its easier but personally I find it to be a bit of a pain to use the knives with one side grinds on either the edge or the primary grind. For one they tend to drift rather than cut straight lines. So, personally I would cheer big cheers if EKI stopped doing them this way but since he won't I always regrind my V grind knives with my EdgePro sharpener and put a traditional two sided edge on it usually before I even put it to work.

STR
 
STR, I sort of get what you are saying, but not exactly. Here is what I do not understand. What is the DIFFERENCE between their V-Grind and Chisel Grind. They look the same to me.
 
I think perhaps I understand now. What EKI calls V-grind, I call a saber ground knife.

Like this: \/ with straight sides above


A chisel grind would be: |/

A Flat Grind would be: \/ all the way up with no straight part above


I for one think they are full of bull calling their Commanders V Grind. That is still a chisel grind to me. They need to do a better job of explaining this, as I was expecting a double sided saber ground blade on my Mini Commander.
 
if i had a dime for everyone who was confused by this i could by an emerson custom lol, imho they are not a "V" grind, certainly not a std "V" grind like on a spyderco delica for instance, imho they cut about as good as a std "V" grind but are a little more difficult to sharpen.

thats just the way it is FWIW, he aint changing nothing.

imho he should change the website to reflect the actual grind as more than one person has been confused.
 
My persian, commander and CQC8 are V ground but only have an edge ground on one side, as stated above, but it is still a V grind, it needs to be totaly flat on the "back side" to be a chisel grind like the kerambit or CQC7s ! i dont see the benefit of it personaly but when it comes to cutting stuff it dosent seem to mater as long as its sharp. they all cut as well as each other as far as im concerned.
 
Besides all the above Emerson, like so many others, puts the chisel grind on the wrong side. At least for us left brain/right handers.
 
True. There wouldn't be so many complaints about the chisel grind or the primary v-grind/secondary chisel grind if they were on the right side rather than the left.

I've just been playing with an old knife of mine, a Running Dog Jr. Executive. It's a fixed blade 5.5" overall, 2.25" blade. It's a chisel grind, flat on the left, high flat grind on the right, with the secondary bevel also only on the right.

(Mine's the custom version in BG-42. It is a real job to sharpen. Got to use diamond or sit there all day trying. :) )
 
So if Ernest is going to only sharpen one side, why make any knives with a V-Grind? Seems like sharpening on one side defeats the purpose of making a V-Grind.
 
No, putting a secondary bevel on one side only is really not the same as a true chisel grind. Slicing with a true chisel grind will cause the blade to slide away noticeably from the side with the grind. Slicing with a one-sided secondary bevel will not do this to any great extent, and not at all on a strong, fast cut.

Also, for example, if a true chisel grind is on a sabre grind, it will slide away more than if it is on a full flat grind, in rough proportion to the angle. So the tiny secondary bevel is almost negligible for ordinary use. But it's not the best for close-up, precision work.
 
Do you guys really cut tomatos with a $200 knife??? I have a ton of old knives from other manufacturers that I don't care for anymore, and those are my work knives. My Emerson's are for defense, and nothing else....still factory sharp and waiting in my pocket for an emergency.

I am no fan of the CQC-7 style chisel grind, but the little bit of chisel grind on the "V-grind" knives won't even be noticeable in a fight! This is nit picking from my point of view.

The Karambits do have a chisel grind, but it is deeper than the CQC-7 so it gives a finer edge.
 
Yes, I do cut tomatoes with expensive knives. Why use lesser knives when I have better available? Why use a knife I don't care for to prepare my food, possibly the most important task I'll use a knife for that day? That said, a Mora is a better tomato knife than a Commander.

Personally, I don't believe in a dedicated self-defense knife. Yes, it will be razor-sharp when I need it, but I keep all my carry knives more than sharp enough. I like to rely on a knife that I'm used to using, not one I hardly ever touch except in training, and will probably not have the muscle memory to reach for in an emergency.
 
reconranger said:
Do you guys really cut tomatos with a $200 knife??? I have a ton of old knives from other manufacturers that I don't care for anymore, and those are my work knives. My Emerson's are for defense, and nothing else....still factory sharp and waiting in my pocket for an emergency.

I am no fan of the CQC-7 style chisel grind, but the little bit of chisel grind on the "V-grind" knives won't even be noticeable in a fight! This is nit picking from my point of view.

The Karambits do have a chisel grind, but it is deeper than the CQC-7 so it gives a finer edge.
Click to expand...

i dont think it matters either as far as how it cuts BUT imho he outta do a better job describing the grinds as a LOT of folks buy commanders (for one.....) and expect a std "V" grind edge and thats not what they are gonna get.
 
As for muscle memory...I practice waving/drawing my knives every time I change pants, which is at least twice a day. Then I go beat up an old heavy bag with a Karambit....
 
I use whatever knife I am carrying that day to cut whatever needs cutting that day. I don't have a special knife for special things. I just carry what appeals to me.

If Emerson wants to make their knives that way, fine, just explain in better on the website and in the catalog.
 
I don't carry a folder for self defense. If I need that I'll pull out my pistol. Once you regrind an edge on any of the V grind models its essentially like any other knife but a bit thick.

Ernie leaves his knives thicker for strength reasons like wedging, and that kind of thing. The chisel grind while thinner at the cutting edge area because of the grind for better penetration and slicing can be the weaker point of the blade but the cross sectional mass down the middle of his chisel grind knives actually makes them stronger blade shapes because its thicker throughout in a higher % surface area making up the mass of the blade.

But again its kind of a funny irony to me really because the blades, the pivot, the G10 handles and liners, and the stop pins are all super duty level parts of the system in most of Ernie's folders but the lock on the other hand is the weak link in the chain so to speak and can't come close to the performance levels of any of these other parts of the system that makes up the folder. Whe he makes them HD models to bring that level up closer to being in balance with all these other components it will really go a long ways toward a truly balanced ready to rock and roll folder. In other words you might have the best prying, and thrusting blade in the business but simple prying and twisting torque motions, and hard stabs and thrusts where there are high tip pressures on this type locking mechanism are all it takes to defeat it and close the blade on your hand and fingers.

STR
 
Now I realize why they call these Emerson knives CQC's (Close Quarters Combat)! They are for defense if you are attacked by killer tomatos! It's a classic: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080391/

And STR, if you are packing a gun on the strong side, not a bad idea to have a Karambit on the weak side to defend against a gun grab!!!
 
I have an HD7 or another Waved folder there most times ready to roll out of my left pocket in reverse grip. Not a big fan of K-bits.

STR
 
And to those who poo poo the idea of a knife as a defensive weapon, you should remember that "you can cut someone a little, but you can't shoot them a little". Using a gun, is like dropping the atomic bomb...there are going to be reprecussions! (The exception in most jurisdictions would be inside your home, where there is no requirement to flee or avoid a confrontation....still, expect to get your ass sued off!)

You quietly cut a perp and he is going to break it off, flee, and go try to tend to his wounds. You think he is going to report it to the LEO's and have to explain what his part was???? Hopefully, he doesn't even know who you are.

You shoot a perp, and you are going to have to explain it to the LEO's, probably spend a bunch of time in court, and he is going to sue you if he lives (or his family if he dies). You'll go bankrupt paying for the lawyers. You might not be dead, but you may wish you were by the time it is all over!

Use the least amount of force necessary to protect your life...and be able to defend that decision in court. Back up your knife with a gun...don't back up your gun with a knife!
 
redonranger said, "Use the least amount of force necessary to protect your life...and be able to defend that decision in court. Back up your knife with a gun...don't back up your gun with a knife!"

Sorry, man, but I gotta say IMHO this is just wrong. If your life is truly in danger the most rapid, efficient, radical response is necessary. Don't plan on cutting a little bit to get him to stop or "shoot to wound". If it's truly a matter of life and death "getterdone", and worry about the consequences later.
 
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