My wooden Scales shrunk/cracked.

Z

Zuul

Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
13
Im new to the forum and Im new to making knives, I have made a few so far and had no real good place to store it, at the time they were sitting on my toaster oven that i use to heat treat my knives.

Did my scales crack from the heat that came of from the oven, or was there something wrong with the wood?

I coat the wood in a boiled linseed oil/pain thinner/polyurethane mixture until it stop soaking it up, and then finish the outside with just polyurethane.

Anyone know which it could be that ruined it? Personally I definitely think its the oven, but at the same time I dont want to get backlash from people who bought the blades saying their scales/handles have started to crack all the sudden.

Your thoughts and input will be greatly valued.
Thanks
 
Why did you put it in the oven? What kind of wood? What condition was the wood prior to treating it? Was it dry? I'd say your problem was too fast a removal of either a. water, or b. finish drying too quickly. Any oven is too hot. Even a light bulb hot box may be too hot for some woods.
 
Well leaving it on top of a toaster oven could definitely cause problems. Was the wood completely dry to begin with? If you used wood that was not completely dry then that could also be a reason.
 
Spalted said:
Well leaving it on top of a toaster oven could definitely cause problems. Was the wood completely dry to begin with? If you used wood that was not completely dry then that could also be a reason.
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Yeah well aware that it wasnt a ideal spot for sure, im baffled that i did it myself. the wood seem dry, they havent been exposed to nature in months. They have all looked pretty good since i made them, then all the sudden sever cracking and the epoxy didnt hold as the wood shrunk, but does that happen over just 1 day? wouldnt it be progressively noticeable? obviously not keeping the knives on the oven anymore.

But would dry wood still crack/shrink if explosed to "unnatural" temperatures?
 
Wood always tries to reach equilibrium with its environment. Finishes do not stop this, they can slow it but wood will move depending upon the environment it is in.

Stabilizing wood will stop the wood from reacting to its environment for the most part.

If you put it on an oven and it got hot that wood was going to react to that end expand.
 
AVigil said:
Wood always tries to reach equilibrium with its environment. Finishes do not stop this, they can slow it but wood will move depending upon the environment it is in.

Stabilizing wood will stop the wood from reacting to its environment for the most part.

If you put it on an oven and it got hot that wood was going to react to that end expand.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info, iv heard of it before but never went into it, it sounds a bit complicated. But Ill research it more, alot of people i see make knives just rub oil on their handles and call it good, never do they mention that they stabilize the wood. I assume I need a pressure/vacuum chamber to be able to do this?
 
When I buy wood, I let it sit in my home for at least 6 weeks before I use it. I prefer 6 months. I learned this when I worked in a cabinet shop. Even kiln dried wood might not be ready to use as you pick it up. It has to acclimate, and in some cases wood that was kiln dried wasn’t close to being properly dried. I’m building a wood kiln this spring to take control of the process. All of the wood I sent to K&G was too wet, even though it was kiln dried.
 
You need to tell us:
What type wood
Where did you get the wood
How long was it dried before use
Did you saw the scales from a block
How did you shape the handle

A major cause of cracks showing up a day or a week later is overheating the wood during sanding and buffing. Ebony and snakewood will be ruined by even a slight overheating during shaping the handle on the grinder.
 
Rapid loss of moisture from end grain is one of the most common sources of wood cracking, and is probably what happened. Your scales were not completely dry, you accidentally heated them up causing rapid loss of moisture from end grain, and they split.
 
Willie71 said:
When I buy wood, I let it sit in my home for at least 6 weeks before I use it. I prefer 6 months. I learned this when I worked in a cabinet shop. Even kiln dried wood might not be ready to use as you pick it up. It has to acclimate, and in some cases wood that was kiln dried wasn’t close to being properly dried. I’m building a wood kiln this spring to take control of the process. All of the wood I sent to K&G was too wet, even though it was kiln dried.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, mine has not been inside my house, but in a shed i work out of, its not temp controlled or anything. So after reading this my wood has probably still been wet.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
You need to tell us:
What type wood
Where did you get the wood
How long was it dried before use
Did you saw the scales from a block
How did you shape the handle

A major cause of cracks showing up a day or a week later is overheating the wood during sanding and buffing. Ebony and snakewood will be ruined by even a slight overheating during shaping the handle on the grinder.
Click to expand...

I dont know what type of wood it was as I found outside, I have very little wood knowledge as been showed already. Its been in my shed for some months but its not actually climate controlled. But the knives have been done for some time, over a month, but it was only yesterday I noticed that one was severely deformed and cracked(which a week ago it wasnt) which then later prompted a check on the rest of the knives that had been on the oven that I used the day before I noticed the cracks.

I had a root that I took some of my scales from, its fairly thick, probably close to 1 foot in diameter (not counting all the little roots poking out of it.

machine sanded and hand sanded the scales.
 
MBB said:
Rapid loss of moisture from end grain is one of the most common sources of wood cracking, and is probably what happened. Your scales were not completely dry, you accidentally heated them up causing rapid loss of moisture from end grain, and they split.
Click to expand...

I just got done stripping the knives of the scales and they all cracked, was a bit heart breaking I have to admit. While it was a struggle to get them to loosen up once I did there was this oily touch and paint thinner smell between the scale and metal, is that from the wood shrinking or was my epoxy not mixed right?

thanks for the info as well, today has been a proper steep learning curve which I thought I was past.
 
kossetx said:
Why did you put it in the oven? What kind of wood? What condition was the wood prior to treating it? Was it dry? I'd say your problem was too fast a removal of either a. water, or b. finish drying too quickly. Any oven is too hot. Even a light bulb hot box may be too hot for some woods.
Click to expand...
The only reason it was on the oven was because the knives were sharp was to keep them a bit more away from the animals we have. Cat cant see whats on the table when he makes a leap from the floor. Making space for them now in a closet. At the time of using the wood to me it was dry, but today showed me different, and I'm learning from these posts as well, I dont know what kind of wood it is as I found it outside, one I know is a root, what kind of tree it was I have no clue, it was a bit redish in color(live in kansas if that would be any indication to someone who knows wood, what wood that would be). I also have pear wood that I have not started using yet.

Thanks, all this is very appreciated!
 
Zuul said:
I dont know what type of wood it was as I found outside, I have very little wood knowledge as been showed already. Its been in my shed for some months but its not actually climate controlled. But the knives have been done for some time, over a month, but it was only yesterday I noticed that one was severely deformed and cracked(which a week ago it wasnt) which then later prompted a check on the rest of the knives that had been on the oven that I used the day before I noticed the cracks.

I had a root that I took some of my scales from, its fairly thick, probably close to 1 foot in diameter (not counting all the little roots poking out of it.

machine sanded and hand sanded the scales.
Click to expand...

Large pieces of wood like the one you describe can take three or more to cure. Use latex paint on the end grain to help minimize checking.
 
Thanks everyone for helping me out on this, super grateful. Iv learned that my wood is most likely not dry enough, its definitely not stable (which seems to be a pretty smart thing to do and after watching a video with a guy explaining how it works, it dont seem that complicated). While this post is getting some attention Id like to ask something further, I use Boiled Linseed Oil mixed with polyurethane and Paint thinner to treat wood when I'v put the scales on permanently, its a equal parts mixture. Should I keep using this mixture? it was giving to me by a person who use to wood work and made pretty handles for various tools of his, as well as various wood bowels. Any pointer or tips would be very nice to get.
 
Willie71 said:
Large pieces of wood like the one you describe can take three or more to cure. Use latex paint on the end grain to help minimize checking.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks for paying such attention to my post. So I should probably move my wood inside my house and let it sit there till its time to use? Can I use stabilizing wood method with not completely dry wood?
 
Zuul said:
Ok, thanks for paying such attention to my post. So I should probably move my wood inside my house and let it sit there till its time to use? Can I use stabilizing wood method with not completely dry wood?
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The wood has to be dry to be stabilized.

http://www.kandgstabilizing.com/

Home stabilizing is usually done with cactus juice. It takes several hundreds of dollars to get set up to do it at home.

Edit, forgot the link: https://www.turntex.com/product/cactus-juice-resin-and-dyes
 
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The formula you give is called wipe on poly. It's fine for grip finish and probably ok for stabilizing but will take a long time to cure. Very long time.
 
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