Mystery Knives

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garzast

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Apr 21, 2015
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Hello. This is my first post -- I'm hoping to tap into the wisdom and expertise of the members here. I've tried Googling every knife in the image below, but I either find nothing, or I find differences from others I've found online.

These are knives and a straight razor that belonged to my grandfather (that's for certain) and some may have come to him from his father (that's unknown). I'm getting ready to pass these onto the next generation in the family, so before I do, could I ask:

1. From what I'm reading, it seems it's best to NOT do any restoration, leaving the patina as is. As one person I read in my research put it "Think of that patina as a little bit of your grandfather left on the knife." Nice way of putting it. Is the general consensus to not restore them?

2. I'm having trouble identifying them. I really don't think they're worth much, or anything too special, but I would like to be able to tell the "kids" (grown up kids that I'm giving them to) whether they're old enough to have belonged to their great great grandfather as opposed to their great grandfather (still not proof, but the age of the knife would be interesting to them). Any opinions you can pass on will be greatly appreciated!

knives.png


The markings on them (from top to bottom) are:

STRAIGHT RAZOR AND CASE ------------------------------------
Straight razor case reads "Simon, Barson & Co, Buck Brand, New York Price $3.50 Warranted"
Straight razor itself is stamped "G. WostenHolm & Sons I-XL Scheffield" and then something after that that I can't read. There is an intricate etching on one side of the blade itself that is greatly worn, but I can see two hands shaking and a partial inscription of "anniversary". There's more but it's too worn.


TOP (SMALLEST) KNIFE ------------------------------------
The smallest pocket knife has "Stainless Colonial" stamped on one side, nothing on the other.
UPDATE: This has been identified as a Colonial DC 4122 "Slim Jack" or "Slim Jim" by jc57.
MORE INFO: http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=32528&start=345
Estimated Age: Mid-70s


SECOND KNIFE ------------------------------------
Next knife down is stamped with a diamond that says "Shap" on one side of the diamond, "Leigh" on another, "HDW" (or "HOW") on another, and then "CO." on the last. On the other side is stamped "B425." Inside the diamond it says "D-E". On the blade is etched "Diamond DE Edge".
UPDATE: jc57 has added this information on this knife "Shapleigh Hardware Co. "Diamond Edge" brand which was contracted out by that hardware company to different makers"
UPDATE: Discovered Shapleigh adopted "Diamond Edge" brand in 1864, then sold the company to Curtis Mfg. Co in 1955 but continued to produce knives under the Shapleigh brand until the early 1960s. Source >
MORE INFO: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1277561-Diamonds-in-the-Rough!?highlight=shapleigh


THIRD KNIFE ------------------------------------
The next knife down (yellow and black handle) is too worn to be able to read anything.
UPDATE: Have cleaned it a bit and can now see a stamp that reads "IMPERIAL" on one line and "PROVIDENCE R.I." on the next line.
MORE INFO: http://www.ehow.com/how_7900495_date-imperial-knives.html and (see photo of stamps on this site)
Confirmed Age: 1930 - 1936
imperial-knife.jpg



FOURTH KNIFE ------------------------------------
The next knife down has the blade stamped with "Schrade NY USA" on one side, and "896K" on the other. I found references to this on Google, but in those cases people said the stamp read "Shrade Walden USA". This one only says "Shrade NY USA".
UPDATE: Primble has added "The 896K Schrade is a premium stockman model. The Schrade NY USA tang stamp was used from 1973-2004."
Estimated Age: Mid-70s


FIFTH KNIFE ------------------------------------
Finally, the last one is too worn to have any markings.


Thanks again for any input!
 
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Great looking knives. The folks in the Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades sub-forum will be able to help you out. Colonial and Schrade are well-known makers (though no longer in business). The other one you have there is a Shapleigh Hardware Co. "Diamond Edge" brand which was contracted out by that hardware company to different makers.

Looks like most of the handle materials you have there are celluloid, and a couple are in the "butter and molasses" pattern which we recently had a long thread about here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tter-and-Molasses!!?highlight=butter+molasses, where you may see some similar knives to yours.

Hopefully the thread will get moved there so that it will get better visibility from the experts on those knives.
 
Thank you, Yo Mama and jc57. I'm already learning about them which is great. I'd never heard the term "butter and molasses"... reading that thread makes me appreciate them more.

I guess to move this thread over to the Traditional Knives forum as you both suggested I need to request that from an admin?
 
garzast said:
Thank you, Yo Mama and jc57. I'm already learning about them which is great. I'd never heard the term "butter and molasses"... reading that thread makes me appreciate them more.

I guess to move this thread over to the Traditional Knives forum as you both suggested I need to request that from an admin?
Click to expand...

Asking for the thread to be moved is easy. At the bottom left corner of your post you will see a small triangle with an exclamation mark. Click that (the "report post" button) and ask for a mod to move it.

The Traditional forum is great and the people who frequent there are among the nicest people on the Internet. I hope you stick around for a bit :)
 
Everyone will love those old knives. If you can get any closer pics of the tang stamps (even if they are hard to read) or use a flatbed scanner to take the images, that will help out. I wish I could tell you more myself but I don't know the older ones very well. Plenty of our folks will know them on sight though.

We can't tell you about valuations due to forum rules (you must be at least a Gold member to discuss valuations).

Several of those have celluloid handles. Celluloid is well known for outgassing, which means it breaks down and gives off a gas which is corrosive to the metal of the knives. So be careful to store them separately to limit the damage. As far as restoration - with older knives, the less you do the better. Clean them with a soft cloth, a little mineral oil on the blades maybe, but in general the patina tends to validate the age and is acceptable and even desirable on older knives.
 
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Thank you, Chris. I've asked an admin to move this over to Traditional Knives.

And more great information from jc57! Thanks for that. I'll see about getting closer photos of the stamps.

You guys say the Traditional Knives forum has nice people -- I'd have to say General Knives has very nice people, too. Already this is one of the nicest online forums I've ever visited.

Thanks for your help.
 
That does look to be one and the same, jc57 -- a Colonial DC 4122 "Slim Jack" or "Slim Jim". It says on that thread from mid-70s to mid-80s. I usually got knives from my granddad (in exchange for a coin)... but I'm starting to wonder if I actually bought this one myself related to Boy Scout trips. Can't remember exactly.
 
Welcome to the Traditional Forum garzast. I hope you will end up enjoying this place at least as much as I do.
 
garzast said:
The next knife down has the blade stamped with "Schrade NY USA" on one side, and "896K" on the other. I found references to this on Google, but in those cases people said the stamp read "Shrade Walden USA". This one only says "Shrade NY USA".
Click to expand...

The 896K Schrade is a premium stockman model. The Schrade NY USA tang stamp was used from 1973-2004. :)
 
Guess garzast's grandpa is younger than he makes out, that's two 70s-era knives so far. Though considering I bought my first knives in the 70s as an adult, and I'm grandpa-aged, I suppose it's plausible. ;)
 
I was born in 61 and took many a trip to the hardware store with my granddad. Seems like he couldn't resist picking up a new knife pretty often, and sometimes the old one would go to me. I had hoped some of these were older, but considering he was born in 1900, there's no telling how many pocket knives he bought in his lifetime and where they all wound up over the years.

Thanks for that information, Primble!
 
Any vintage knife that I prize gets treatment with Tuf Glide to stop ageing of the metal parts, non-stainless steel parts in particular. This helps the knife to travel thru time to future recipients minimizing rust. Once I am satisfied with the cleanliness and the appearance of the metal parts I treat by further cleaning with rubbing alcohol (put alcohol and knife in a zip lock and shake), drying and applying a complete coat of TG all out of doors for ventilation purposes (use gloves). Let dry. Remove excess with a soft cloth. I've only tried this on celluloid once so you should consider, if you want to try this, spot testing one of the target knives with alcohol and Tuf Glide to see what happens.

Were those my knives I'd pick one and consider removing much of the surface scratching on the blades by hand with polishing tape and metal polish and then polish the interior of the folders by hand with metal polish, rags and Q-tips. Then sharpen each blade to a shaving edge.

The story on celluloid, an early thermoplastic, that I was told (by the barber who sold knives out of his shop) when I bought this knife is that the formula was lost and only a finite amount of the stuff remained. Spontaneous combustion was said to be a possibility. I only have the one celluloid-handled knife (Linder dagger) and it appears to glow as if it had an internal light source. I have noticed no change what-so-ever over the decade of ownership and no reaction to alcohol or Tuf Glide. Here is a link for better information on celluloid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celluloid

I like the bottom bright honey handle long pull. :) Is the beautiful celluloid scale cracked at the bottom pin?




 
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Thank you for that valuable information, Oregon.

Yes, on the "honey handle long pull" there is a crack in the celluloid along the bottom pin that doesn't go all the way to the edge on either side. There's also a scratch up near the top pin. The celluloid on the other side is fine.

This knife and the yellow and black handle one seem to be the oldest knives. Unfortunately I'm not able to make out any markings on them.

P.S. That's a nice-looking dagger on your post.
 
jc57, when you say a couple of the knives are butter and molasses pattern, would those two be the second knife from the top (the Shapleigh) and the fourth knife (the Schrade)?
 
Those were the two I was thinking of, yes. I am no expert, just passing on what I have picked up hereabouts. You'll probably get some better educated replies tomorrow.
 
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