Naked Women and Knives

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Now that I have the attention of most readers on this forum, I would like to expand on some recent conversations at Ashokan and in emails.

I think most all of us find the nude female form nearly perfect. I know there are a few female members here, and they already know that the female form ( and most everything else they do) is perfect

It is not necessary for this form to be flawless to appear perfect. As long as the form is within the normal range of aesthetics it will appear attractive to almost all viewers. However, if the form becomes to "busy", it starts detracting from the effect.


Let's look at the term busy for a moment.
In any artistic or engineering task, the total package should meet the original purpose aesthetically. Just because it "works" isn't the same as being the "best" or even being "good".

Taking a nude woman again as an example. If she is without any major body flaws even a rather plain nude woman will look attractive. This is due to the simplicity of the subject and what it creates in the mind of the viewer. If you add big dangly ear rings, piercings and chains, tattoos, wild dyed hair, tons of jewelry.....she suddenly looses that simple attractiveness. Every feature becomes its own region of examination, and all the flaws start being critiqued by the viewer's mind. The viewers mind will see things as too large, too weird, too gaudy, too distracting, etc. Any one of these individual features alone may have passed as an attractive or erotic addition, but the combination can create sensory overload.

In things with simple and classic lines...like a naked woman or a knife....simple is almost always better.

There is good reason a lovely knife is almost always referred to as a "lady", and a rough or clunky knife is referred to as a "bad boy".

Now, taking a knife as the subject, keeping it simple can keep it attractive. Adding too many handle features, blade elements, or garish accents may take what would have been a very nice knife and made it seem "too busy". Your eye can't take the whole in as one glance, so it picks the things that stick out the most. These start to be mentally critiqued, and before long the entire package is considered flawed. This effect will happen even when each element is done to perfection.

Simple lines, curves (people love them on both women and knives), and subtle accents are far better than lights, whistles, and bells.

 

[Randydb]

I'm thinking pictures would be a great way to illustrate what you are saying here Stacy. For those of us with poor comprehension and less experience (knife design experience I mean.).

 

[Don Hanson III]

Agreed, yes... but pictures would help.

 

[PEU]

Let's start

Pablo

 

[AVigil]

well that got weird

 

[Randydb]

You are gonna get in trouble PEU!

 

[i4Marc]

Well, Stacy, I agree with your point. But when you are dealing with personal taste it gets complicated. There are those folks who really go for those gals with all the bells and whistles, the red hair, tattoos, piercings et al. When it comes to knives, I kinda like the more simple models although here we have more room for bells and whistles.....as long as it is tasteful. There again we get into personal preference. There are many pretty extraordinary knives that have plenty of embellishment and would likely be considered tasteful and maybe even "perfect", whatever THAT means. But it comes down in large part to how those embellishments are chosen and combined. It must be in service of the overall composition. I see lots of examples where folks add engraving to a knife that just doesn't need it. It does a disservice to the overall form and composition. Maybe the maker thought it would add value. I see it more like a fashion statement. I wouldn't put a plaid jacket together with a striped shirt, polka dot tie, and paisley pants. Can you put a pattern welded blade with file work on the spine together with an engraved, sculpted guard, coined spacers made of bronze, copper and 416SS with a checkered, scrimshawed ivory panel handle with engraved wrought iron butt cap with gold inlays? Um, I guess so. But it would take a truly masterful artist to pull it all together in a singular coherent statement. It is my own personal opinion that women were intended at creation to be perfect in their simplest, natural form. I also feel that a knife can be stunning in its simplest form as well as with well chosen embellishments, well chosen being the operative phrase.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

You have some good wisdom to impart there Stacy. I am not very experienced granted, but I am already leaning toward simple, straight forward designs.
In my initial designs I got some pretty weird and maybe somewhat cool designs, but now I look at them and they just look gaudy.
Simple lines, one or two nice accents. You have a nice knife.
Great advice.

 

[AVigil]

Trying to stifle the creativity of artists and their visions are best left to those who failed before them.

It is only with vision and thinking out of the box do artist grow and learn, not by telling them how to do it and not to do it.

Just imagine if Buster Warenski or Virgil England followed such advice.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Trying to stifle the creativity of artists and their visions are best left to those who failed before them.
It is only with vision and thinking out of the box do artist grow and learn, not by telling them how to do it and not to do it.
Just imagine if Buster Warenski or Virgil England followed such advice.

I get your point, but I didn't take it like that at all. If someone gets stopped from dreaming based on this post, they didn't have much in them to start with.

 

[Burl Source]

It is very tempting for me to try to do things unusual and unique. Especially when I am new at something.
But......especially in the beginning it is better to keep things clean and more along the lines of classic designs while learning and developing my skills.
Then after mastering the basics move toward developing my own style.
For myself I have to keep this in mind with my woodworking. I am still working on the basics.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

It is very tempting for me to try to do things unusual and unique. Especially when I am new at something.
But......especially in the beginning it is better to keep things clean and more along the lines of classic designs while learning and developing my skills.
Then after mastering the basics move toward developing my own style.
For myself I have to keep this in mind with my woodworking. I am still working on the basics.

Good perspective. One of the old sayings is you should learn the rules before you break them. Roughly the same idea.
Now what blade do you use to cut ironwood Mark? It takes FOREVER on my band saw! :|

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I was giving advice to newer makers, not seasoned professionals like Buster Warenski.

I bet Buster learned engraving the same way every other engraver did...make a few thousand swirls, learn to connect them into shapes, add the background, etc.
I am absolutely sure he did not make the King Tut dagger as his second blade.

I regularly hear people talk about thinking outside the box...but you can't do that until you know what is in the box and where the sides are.

 

[AVigil]

Even Buster was a new maker once and knifemaking is a journey each must a make with their own vision and the mistakes and skills learned from those attempts at knifemaking.

New makers are not necessarily coming to knifemaking without skills. There are some knifemakers who have been at it for decades and still can not make a blade as finely crafted by some "new makers".

If new makers wants to try something his hearts desires then good on them and if they fail that is part of the learning process and if they succeed they go on to make fine works like Buster.

We do not pay for their materials, we do not pay for their time, but we can help them learn the craft and if they take few detours getting something out of their system

Good for them

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

There's actually a box? And it has something in it? And it has sides? Crap, no wonder none of my knives look right! OK, off to the store to buy a box so I can see what's in it before I completely destroy the san-mai I've been working on.

Great analogy Stacy:thumbup:

I was giving advice to newer makers, not seasoned professionals like Buster Warenski.

I bet Buster learned engraving the same way every other engraver did...make a few thousand swirls, learn to connect them into shapes, add the background, etc.
I am absolutely sure he did not make the King Tut dagger as his second blade.

I regularly hear people talk about thinking outside the box...but you can't do that until you know what is in the box and where the sides are.

 

[Halbrust]

As a new maker who has crazy ideas...

There are wild knives that can be made. Karambits come to mind. It's a tried and true design that should not work according to Stacy's story. But it does. It is the exception to the rule. I encourage new makers to make the established exception to the rules before they try to come up with their own exceptions.

 

[watty]

I would just like to point out that naked women. Is the only thing i think about while hand filing and hand sanding...... friction is key.

 

[Don Nguyen]

I try to always think in terms of silhouettes. If I took away the finish, the handle materials, and whatever else embellishments, how does the overall profile look? That's what I'm concerned with. Everything has to be aesthetically balanced.

 

[Hengelo_77]

I agree that to much usualy is to much.

I like either: plane lines / shapes with beautiful material with a lot going on
or a beautiful shaped knife with well chosen lines with a plane handle material.

For example either a simple shaped knife with a beautiful burl wood handle, or
a beautiful, well in balance shaped knife with a rather plane blackwood handle.

But plain simplicity can be beautiful as well. A simple designed knife made out of simple materials can be beautiful as well.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I try to always think in terms of silhouettes. If I took away the finish, the handle materials, and whatever else embellishments, how does the overall profile look? That's what I'm concerned with. Everything has to be aesthetically balanced.

Don, this is EXACTLY what I was getting at. If the simplicity of the shape isn't pleasing, or something distracts from that shape...it isn't likely to look as good.

The reason I always suggest new makers ( and experienced ones, too) draw their knives before cutting steel is they have to start with the profile. Once that is done, then you fill in the details.

This is an excerpt from a post a year ago on this subject:
".......I will pass on a great comment on shape and design from an artist I knew. She said that when a new student started to draw a nude torso, they almost always drew the nipples as one of the first things. Then they would try and shape the breasts around them. The end result was always the worst looking breasts she ever saw. Once they learned to draw the basic breast shape first, and make it look natural, the placement of the nipples was easy.....and sometimes unnecessary. Her point was to get the basic shape drawn first before adding any details, and that if the basic shape was good enough, fewer details are needed....."