Native II vs. Wegner: Lock strength Q

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Franco G

Joined
Dec 29, 2000
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I am thinking about geting either Native II or Wegner PE when I visit Wienna in two weeks. Purpose? To carry a knife which is lighter than my Chinook. Yes, I know, the Lil' Temperance would be ideal, but I want to wait until the BG-42 version appears. My question is which one of the two mentioned above has a stronger lock (measured in # inch/lbs)?
As far as I know, both are 'spyderco heavy duty' knifes.
Regards,

Franco

P.S. I own the Wegner SE, but don't want to abuse it because it is not produced anymore. My son owns the Native FRN (440V), which is excellent, but the SS version certainly has a stronger lock.
 
Originally posted by Franco G
I Yes, I know, the Lil' Temperance would be ideal, but I want to wait until the BG-42 version appears.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, this isn't anywhere in Spyderco's immediate plans, or scheduled for anytime in 2003.
 
Is there any plans to have any blade in BG-42 soon or in 2003?
There were plans to have runs of the Lil' Temperance in BG-42, after the first runs in CPM440V.
Regards,

Franco
 
On lock strengths, all things being equal, we can usually get more lock strength out of a lockback than we can out of a linerlock. Especially in an all stainless knife due to the thicker stainless scales.

On the Lil' Temperance, the current run is in CPM-S30V. I imagine I'll sqeeze in a BG-42 run, probably with another handle color or material, at least as a test. I would hope to do it in 2003, but can make no guarantees.

sal
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
On lock strengths, all things being equal, we can usually get more lock strength out of a lockback than we can out of a linerlock. Especially in an all stainless knife due to the thicker stainless scales.
sal
Click to expand...

:eek: Wow, that's so contrary to the misinformation put out by others. I know you only speak on behalf of Spyderco knives, but one manufacturer (whose name I won't mention) claims that lockbacks are an economical compromise and meant for cheap knives. I can't figure this out since the lockback has more parts and assembly involved in its manufacture. Not to mention my SS Police was neither cheap (especially due to a poor currency exchange rate) nor feels cheap.

I'm also pleasantly surprised that the Spydiehole offers more leverage to flick or snap open a lockback -- even ones with heavy springs -- compared to thumbstuds; not that I try to make it a bad habit to snap open my folders. :o

FTC

P.S. Who are these dolts that claim that you can't close lockbacks with one hand? Maybe they need to cut down on their caffeine consumption, and practice their manual dexterity!
 
Given that both locks are built with quality, a Lockback can be built with more strength than a liner.
I don't know where you hear about lockback is a cheap lock....
One thing about lockbacks... The notch on the tang of the blade usually makes a square corner, so that when the blade is closed, that corner is quite exposed and have a chance of scratching your hand when you draw it (the corner is on the spine, check your Endura/Delica). Spyderco have dealt with that problem quite nicely by making the handle to shield that aread. Spyderco Native and Renegade is a good example of that.
 
lockbacks can be cheaper than making very good linerlocks. Additions like offset arc ramps, eccentric pivot pins, very strict spring bends, ball bearing detents which must be very close tolerance all add up to a difficult lock. Made well, linelocks are very nice.

On the strength issue, a linerlock that is working properly will bend when more force is applied than the lock can hold. It bends until it blows out of the sides of the knife. A nice safety feature in that catastrophic failure is not likely. Keeping those sides from blowing out can add a lot of weight to a knife.

A properly made lockback has to break the lock or break the tang to defeat. Ususally (on our knives) it's the pins that go first and they'll distort or bend quite a bit before failur occurs.

Both good locks when properly made. Just different.

sal
 
As a left-handed person I have always preferred lockbacks for their genuine ambidexterity.

Also, my first real knife, a Buck 110 (still have it) had a lockback and I have associated the lockback since then with "real" knives.
I find the "thunk" of the blade locking a very pleasant sound.

I don't trust linerlocks.
I worry that I might inadvertently unlock the blade.
I've never done it but it seems more probable with a linerlock than any other lock, at least to me.
 
Originally posted by calyth
Given that both locks are built with quality, a Lockback can be built with more strength than a liner.
I don't know where you hear about lockback is a cheap lock....
Click to expand...

I apologize as my quote was a bit misleading. I meant to say that this company implies that lockbacks are for economy knives. They don't explicitly say lockback are crappy or anything like that.

Another important thing about lockbacks is proper maintenance as a build-up of debris in the notch of the tang may compromise lock up.

FTC


Hint: this company I won't mention is known for a specific trademark lock and don't have many lockbacks in their line-up
 
FTC: yeah, the lockback could be clogged by lint and stuff... but I'm not worried. I've yet to have that to happen and I check it out pretty often anyways.
Is that company happens to make their knives on a bench ? ;)
 
Originally posted by calyth
FTC: yeah, the lockback could be clogged by lint and stuff... but I'm not worried. I've yet to have that to happen and I check it out pretty often anyways.
Is that company happens to make their knives on a bench ? ;)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I need to be a bit more vigilant. Once, I noticed my Native was not clicking with as much gusto as it normally does. Upon investigation, there was a big dust bunny in the notch. Therefore, the knife gave me some warning before something failed.

As for the mystery company. Let's just say they seem to imply that they are made that way. There seems to be much balihoo around their other types of knives that can't often be bought for a song. ;)

FTC
 
I at one time participated on the forum provided by the unknown knife manufacturer.
I lobbied hard for a version of a particularly martial knife design in a lockback format.
The moderator of that forum decried lockbacks as "cheap," and besides, they had a NEW lock which would render all other locks obsolete, except, of course, for the people who couldn't come up with the money for a REAL knife and who, therefore, had to settle for a "cheap" lockback.
Since then I have handled a few of that maker's "cheap" lockbacks, and yes, I would describe them as "cheap."

I like lockbacks.
I prefer them over any other lock.
I don't like to hear lockbacks unjustly disparaged because that disparagment tends to reduce the market demand for lockbacks, and thereby reduces the number of lockbacks available for selection.

Granted, a lockback takes a tiny bit more effort to open because of the cam in front of the notch that tends, appropriately, to keep the knife closed.
I like that.
I would not like a knife to have zero resistance to opening.
I want it to open only when I mean for it to open.
A lockback stays closed when I want it closed and it stays open when I want it open.
It doesn't get any better than that.
 
I have a liner lock (not Spyderco) that failed because lint got in the knife. Wouldn't open fully. Freaked me out.

Have to maintain all mechanisms properly.
 
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