natural handle material cost reflection on traditional knives...

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

I perfectly understand that some handle materials cost more because they are harder to access, or more difficult to work with. But, I notice some firms will greatly increase their prices on such things as stag, horn, mother of pearl, certain woods, and such... while others only make slight increases on different materials. I know many believe that one gets what one pays for... but I feel with many items one buys, one does not get all one has paid for... and that with careful buying, one can not only get good product at fair price, but even get good product at great price. Handle materials seem to be a big part of the price... and though prices on materials are obviously different... some really seem to make more drastic differences in their pricing based on their handle material. Just my observation.

 

[black mamba]

Natural handle materials like stag and wood run a wide range of quality. Stag with great texture, color and density is WAY more expensive than the porous, featureless stag found on cheaper knives. Wood too can be high or low quality, plus can be stabilized or not, again adding to the price. Yes, careful shopping can produce good deals, but one generally does get what one pays for. Shopping by price alone is almost always a mistake.

 

[kamagong]

That's an overly simplistic observation. Take stag for example. Just because two companies use it doesn't mean they use the same quality of materials.

Here are two very different pieces of stag.

- Christian

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

You guys bring up good points... But in this world where less and less of these knives are found in brick and mortar stores, one more has to rely on sight unseen products off the internet. Even when pics are supplied, the actual hands on buying can't be beat, or replicated from online buying. Disappointment is much more likely when online buying, period. And even with name brand, and not so inexpensive product, the deviations in quality are often found. Also, oftentimes quality of material is judged by visual.... and that too is subjective. I have seen both expensive quality items, and comparatively inexpensive quality items... So yes, one shoild not purchase on price alone. And again, pics can help with online buying, but they don't tell the entire story. Anyhow, I have been pleased with some of my recent knife purchases, and the costs have been pretty good. The more I learn about the different production firms and their product vendors, and the more I discover their materials, their consistant (or inconsistant) quality controls, and other factors, the better I am getting at buying what ultimately makes me happy. Again, my observation on my own experiences and purchases

 

[Bob W]

Natural materials look nicer, so the companies know they can sell at a premium to boost their revenue. It's no secret that people will pay more for attractive products than for bland products.

There is quite a bit more work involved too, I imagine. Selecting the pieces, dying, jigging or finishing, some materials need stabilizing, etc.

Also, I wonder how much material is lost during the manufacture process compared to synthetic materials. Plastics come ready-made in any thickness or length, minimizing waste. Breakage, and flaws that make pieces unusable, probably add to the cost of working with natural materials.

That's an overly simplistic observation. Take stag for example. Just because two companies use it doesn't mean they use the same quality of materials.
Here are two very different pieces of stag.

I prefer the lower knife from Queen for sure. It has a more warm color compared to the stark white of the GEC.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

Yes, I too prefer the pic showing the smaller knife... just an example that beauty is, in the end, in the eye of the beholder ;-) As for loss of material and tougher to work on certain materials, yes again, that holds true for any and all manufacturers, and it is why I made that understanding clear in my original post above

 

[oldrifleman]

I have come to rely on pictures of the actual knives that some vendors put on the web site. ONe in particular that I spend time (and money) looking around will post pictures of individual knives when the material varies (for example Stag). For knives where the material is fairly consistant (Wood, Bone) they post a representative picture of an actual knife. This helps a great deal and makes me much more comfortable buying there. Steven

 

[Thalestin]

I think it's also important to take into account cost of the material (this will vary based on bender and grade of material) but also the cost of acquiring and maintaining a supply. Often several suppliers may be needed for larger operations and this will increase cost

 

[puukkoman]

Yeah, I agree with Jeff and Christian, it's more complicated than simply "what is it made of?"
Variations in quality, preparation, and workmanship all play into it.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

Yeah, Steven, I too find pics a great help with online buying. The problem is, it's only a partial tale. Walk and talk, blade play, blades badly centered, big gaps in handle... or a bunch of other factors, are not always seen in a picture. So yes, pics are better than no pics, I agree.. But... ;-)

 

[rma100]

Natural materials look nicer, so the companies know they can sell at a premium to boost their revenue. It's no secret that people will pay more for attractive products than for bland products.

There is quite a bit more work involved too, I imagine. Selecting the pieces, dying, jigging or finishing, some materials need stabilizing, etc.

Also, I wonder how much material is lost during the manufacture process compared to synthetic materials. Plastics come ready-made in any thickness or length, minimizing waste. Breakage, and flaws that make pieces unusable, probably add to the cost of working with natural materials.



I prefer the lower knife from Queen for sure. It has a more warm color compared to the stark white of the GEC.

Just an FYI, the "warm color" on the lower knife was artificially produced with a propane torch. All modern knife companies use "Burnt" Stag. GEC does label theirs as such. And the GEC Handles labeled as Natural Stag or Genuine Stag are NOT burnt.
Also, the Synthetic handle materials are not bought in "ready made". They are bought in large sheets. The knife manufacturer must then cut them to a workable size, leaving enough material to allow for finish sanding, buffing and polishing after the knife is assembled. Not much different than, say, a smooth bone handle.

 

[Bob W]

Just an FYI, the "warm color" on the lower knife was artificially produced with a propane torch. All modern knife companies use "Burnt" Stag. GEC does label theirs as such. And the GEC Handles labeled as Natural Stag or Genuine Stag are NOT burnt.

Good to know. :thumbup:
I still prefer it though.

 

[herisson]

[Also, the Synthetic handle materials are not bought in "ready made". They are bought in large sheets. The knife manufacturer must then cut them to a workable size, leaving enough material to allow for finish sanding, buffing and polishing after the knife is assembled. Not much different than, say, a smooth bone handle.[/QUOTE]

And this explains probably why Micarta handled knives are not way much cheaper than natural handled ones. I'll still go for bone, stag, wood, it just feels better...

 

[rma100]

[Also, the Synthetic handle materials are not bought in "ready made". They are bought in large sheets. The knife manufacturer must then cut them to a workable size, leaving enough material to allow for finish sanding, buffing and polishing after the knife is assembled. Not much different than, say, a smooth bone handle.

And this explains probably why Micarta handled knives are not way much cheaper than natural handled ones. I'll still go for bone, stag, wood, it just feels better...[/QUOTE]

Not only Micarta but also Delrin, Acrylic, and, to a lesser extent, Celluloid.

 

[jon_slider]

Take stag for example. Just because two companies use it doesn't mean they use the same quality of materials.

Here are two very different pieces of stag.

I agree that the popcorn stag is obviously more rare than the second cut on the small knife. Im very surprised that some people here feel the cheaper material is more to their liking. But I guess thats what makes the world go round, peoples taste varies. And value is just an opinion based on taste.

fwiw, the orange color on stag can also be created by burning caused from a buffing wheel, even if you don't use a torch, you can burn stag.

here is an example of stag that is burned by buffing, the bottom knife, the orange part. Some people do not appreciate the non natural color of the burn. Others like it.

Me personally, I don't like FAT stag, as in the bottom knife pictured. But tastes vary diametrically. So value is in the eye of the beholder. Like my dad once told me
De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_gustibus_non_est_disputandum

 

[okbohn]

Just for some perspective--scales for bone handled pocket knives are from $3-$12. The last mammoth ivory I bought (the good stuff!) $70. One time I bought the stag for my own run of GEC, they were $45 (4-5 years ago).

It is crazy expensive stuff.

 

[okbohn]

Another factor in cost from the perspective of the dealer. More cost in photography. More time answering customer inquiries. Many, many, many more returns. They are probably 50-75 to 1 when you consider anything with a natural handle material to something like a Spyderco.

 

[Modoc ED]

Just an FYI, the "warm color" on the lower knife was artificially produced with a propane torch. All modern knife companies use "Burnt" Stag. GEC does label theirs as such. And the GEC Handles labeled as Natural Stag or Genuine Stag are NOT burnt.

Bob makes a good point about Burnt Stag and Natural Stag/Genuine Stag.

I know many that would pass on the lower knife because it has minimal figuring.

 

[Brian.Evans]

Stag is more expensive to purchase. But natural materials are more labour intensive as well. They take longer to work with. Good stag is getting harder to find in the world of small purchasers. Bone is easy, stag is hard.

 

[Humppa]

I agree with most of the made statements above.

High cost is sometimes a point of view in some way. I realised, that in the US stag is really expensive stuff. Compared it to Germany (for example), where also nice stag is used as handle material in pocket knives - it´s much more cheaper. But some other materials like bone have usually the same price like stag. But this can also be country specific in some way...