Neck Knife = Concealed?

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footballplayerchris

Joined
Jan 1, 2011
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Is a neck knife considered a concealed knife? I live in Utah in the good ol' US of A and the knife laws state that you may not carry a concealed knife. So, is a neck knife a concealed knife?
 
Absolutely. No doubt there.

EDITED: IF it's under your shirt, that is. If it's dangling from your kneck, plainly visible for all to see, it is not "concealed". The reason I know this is partly because of my livelyhood, and partly due to knowledge of State laws here in New Mexico. Sometimes, it is at the discretion of an officer. If you are wearing a pistol or knife on your belt, for example, and during winter are wearing a jacket or coat that covers it, then the officer makes the initial decision whether or not it is "concealed". The courts will later make the official decision ((:D))

A kneck knife under the shirt like I wear everyday? Concealed , in each and every case. Period.
 
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if you wear it covered, then it is considered concealed. if you wear it on the outside of whatever you wear, then no its not concealed.
 
That is strange. I came to understand that concealed knife is not about the way how you carry it. Concealed knife is about the design of the knife. Knives made to look like pens or belt buckles, like credit cards and so on are considered consealed knives. With consealed knife you are able to deceive even quite thorough search and take it to the places you are not allowed to. So you presumably have an intend to use it - and not as a tool but rather as a weapon! Regular neck knife like a folder should not be considered concealed in my humble opinion - for it looks exactly like a regular knife and does not indicate any bad intend on your side. I might be wrong there. But it somehow made some sense for me while that wearing thing did not.
 
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My state says something to the effect of "...attempts to furtively conceal..." which I've been explained as such...

If you have a knife on your waist-band, and your shirt or coat covers it: Not concealed.

If you have a knife stuck on the inside of your waist-band so it cannot be scene even if you lifted your shirt or something: Concealed.
 
Poez said:
That is strange. I came to understand that concealed knife is not about the way how you carry it. Concealed knife is about the design of the knife. Knives made to look like pens or belt buckles, like credit cards and so on are considered consealed knives. With consealed knife you are able to deceive even quite thorough search and take it to the places you are not allowed to. So you presumably have an intend to use it - and not as a tool but rather as a weapon! Regular neck knife like a folder should not be considered concealed in my humble opinion - for it looks exactly like a regular knife and does not indicate any bad intend on your side. I might be wrong there. But it somehow made some sense for me while that wearing thing did not.
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Concealed literally means "not accessible to view" or "hidden on any grounds for any motive" (or so the free online dictionary tells me).

Where I come from, if a knife (or gun, or sword, or attack helicopter, whatever) isn't carried in a way that makes it obvious to others (especially law enforcement officers) that it's there, it likely to be considered a concealed weapon. Anything hidden from view would, by definition, be considered concealed - my nipples are concealed when I wear a shirt, for example. :thumbup:

Your knife doesn't have to be some ludicrous bond gadget that looks like a tube of lipstick or something for it to be considered 'concealed' - it just has to be hidden from sight.

Now, whether carrying a concealed knife constitutes carrying a concealed weapon depends on your local laws.
 
KennyB said:
My state says something to the effect of "...attempts to furtively conceal..." which I've been explained as such...

If you have a knife on your waist-band, and your shirt or coat covers it: Not concealed.

If you have a knife stuck on the inside of your waist-band so it cannot be scene even if you lifted your shirt or something: Concealed.
Click to expand...

The "furtively conceal" part of that statue if giving proper meaning would be concealed with bad intent (something like carrying the knife in under your shirt while you broke into some one's house with your rape kit of rope and tape in hand).

In practice, however, it is interpreted simply as out of sight.

So, coat or shirt covering a knife on your belt in a sheath can be charged as a crime. (have seen cases just like this).

Washington has also put some other statutes that, even if your knife is out in the open, would technically allow them to charge you with another crime, even if it is not concealed. If you have anything "apparently capable of causing serious bodily harm" and a sheeple citizen gets all pantie wadded up about it and calls the cops, you can be charged for the fact that the sheeple got scared. (Too lazy to actually look up the statute at this hour). But basically if you open carry a weapon (can be a gun, or really any type of weapon), and you cause alarm in the sheeple), you can be charged with a misdemeanor crime.


I have not seen a case yet where the argument was made to give proper meaning to the actual language of the statue that worked. IIE that the fact that legislators used "furtively" in the statue means that they intended the word to mean something.

fur·tive
adj \ˈfər-tiv\
Definition of FURTIVE
1
a : done by stealth : surreptitious b : expressive of stealth : sly <had a furtive look about him>
2
: obtained underhandedly : stolen
&#8212; fur·tive·ly adverb
&#8212; fur·tive·ness noun

The only case I have seen address it (Washington State Supreme Court) only a dissenting judge cared. The person was still convicted of carrying a concealed dangerous weapon by the majority decision.

I kind of dance around this issue all the time in Washington. I try to keep my fixed blade edc's visible just for this reason. Cliped, and peaking out the top of the pocket.

It is funny that I can carry a loaded Glock, but not a concealed fixed bladed knife with a tiny 3 inch blade without worrying about it.
 
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Bigfattyt said:
Washington has also put some other statutes that, even if your knife is out in the open, would technically allow them to charge you with another crime, even if it is not concealed. If you have anything "apparently capable of causing serious bodily harm" and a sheeple citizen gets all pantie wadded up about it and calls the cops, you can be charged for the fact that the sheeple got scared. (Too lazy to actually look up the statute at this hour). But basically if you open carry a weapon (can be a gun, or really any type of weapon), and you cause alarm in the sheeple), you can be charged with a misdemeanor crime.
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RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm &#8212; Unlawful carrying or handling &#8212; Penalty &#8212; Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

Bigfattyt said:
It is funny that I can carry a loaded Glock, but not a concealed fixed bladed knife with a tiny 3 inch blade without worrying about it
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I could not find a section that specifically prohibits carrying a concealed singe edged fixed blade. Only one that comes close is:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons &#8212; Penalty.
Every person who:
(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon;
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

The dangerous weapon is a very subjective topic so it can be interpreted differently in each particular case.

If you are in Seattle then Seattle Municipal Code prohibits you from carrying openly or concealed a knife with over 3.5 inch blade, fixed or folder.

SMC 12A.14.080
It is unlawful for a person knowingly to:
B. Carry concealed or unconcealed on his or her person any dangerous
knife, or carry concealed on his or her person any deadly weapon other
than a firearm;.
SMC 12A.14.010 Definitions.
A. &#8220;Dangerous knife" means any fixed-blade knife and any other knife
having a blade more than three and one-half inches (3 1/2") in length.

So it's all about public perception, it&#8217;s how you act and present yourself towards others. I have been carrying knives, including short fixed blades and never had a problem. But it not to say I never will as the Law has many gray areas that can easily be used against the individual. I just hope I don&#8217;t give a reason for it.
 
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Something needs to be done about these silly laws. A pocket knife should be carried in your pocket! I guess in some of these liberal states you have to carry your pocket knife where..........on your wrist like a watch?? If your wearing long sleeve shirts that wouldnt work either! We need to start voting in politicians that will think with some common sense.
 
Bigfattyt said:
The "furtively conceal" part of that statue if giving proper meaning would be concealed with bad intent (something like carrying the knife in under your shirt while you broke into some one's house with your rape kit of rope and tape in hand).

In practice, however, it is interpreted simply as out of sight.

So, coat or shirt covering a knife on your belt in a sheath can be charged as a crime. (have seen cases just like this).

Washington has also put some other statutes that, even if your knife is out in the open, would technically allow them to charge you with another crime, even if it is not concealed. If you have anything "apparently capable of causing serious bodily harm" and a sheeple citizen gets all pantie wadded up about it and calls the cops, you can be charged for the fact that the sheeple got scared. (Too lazy to actually look up the statute at this hour). But basically if you open carry a weapon (can be a gun, or really any type of weapon), and you cause alarm in the sheeple), you can be charged with a misdemeanor crime.


I have not seen a case yet where the argument was made to give proper meaning to the actual language of the statue that worked. IIE that the fact that legislators used "furtively" in the statue means that they intended the word to mean something.

fur·tive
adj \&#712;f&#601;r-tiv\
Definition of FURTIVE
1
a : done by stealth : surreptitious b : expressive of stealth : sly <had a furtive look about him>
2
: obtained underhandedly : stolen
— fur·tive·ly adverb
— fur·tive·ness noun

The only case I have seen address it (Washington State Supreme Court) only a dissenting judge cared. The person was still convicted of carrying a concealed dangerous weapon by the majority decision.

I kind of dance around this issue all the time in Washington. I try to keep my fixed blade edc's visible just for this reason. Cliped, and peaking out the top of the pocket.

It is funny that I can carry a loaded Glock, but not a concealed fixed bladed knife with a tiny 3 inch blade without worrying about it.
Click to expand...
I read that statute but didn't know that's what it meant. The one rookie4real quoted I mean .

Anyway, I asked a LEO about the concealed weapons statute over on a law enforcement forum, and there's where I quoted the answer I gave, so I've been trusting of it. Basically I asked, "If any knife is a weapon, then wouldn't a pocket knife be considered a concealed weapon?" and they responded by saying that you would have to be trying to hide it, such as putting it down your sock in your shoe or something, and then of course the waist-band example.

As long as we're on the subject of interesting RCW statutes...

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.94A.825
RCW 9.94A.825
Deadly weapon special verdict — Definition.


In a criminal case wherein there has been a special allegation and evidence establishing that the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, the court shall make a finding of fact of whether or not the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, or if a jury trial is had, the jury shall, if it find the defendant guilty, also find a special verdict as to whether or not the defendant or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.

[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]
Click to expand...


I remember finding this one night when searching the RCW for any mentions of knife length. I even wrote some people about it and never heard a response back. I don't know if it only has relevance to the first portion, or if this is some archaic definition from another statue that I can't find.
 
KennyB said:
Basically I asked, "If any knife is a weapon, then wouldn't a pocket knife be considered a concealed weapon?" and they responded by saying that you would have to be trying to hide it, such as putting it down your sock in your shoe or something, and then of course the waist-band example.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that plus that if a knife has a pocket clip that is visible when it's inside your pocket, it will not be considered concealed as you can see the part of the knife-pocket clip.

KennyB said:
For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.
Click to expand...

Good find, combined with RCW 9.41.250(2) that means absolutely no concealed fixed blades over 3".:(
 
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Poez said:
That is strange. I came to understand that concealed knife is not about the way how you carry it. Concealed knife is about the design of the knife. Knives made to look like pens or belt buckles, like credit cards and so on are considered consealed knives. With consealed knife you are able to deceive even quite thorough search and take it to the places you are not allowed to. So you presumably have an intend to use it - and not as a tool but rather as a weapon! Regular neck knife like a folder should not be considered concealed in my humble opinion - for it looks exactly like a regular knife and does not indicate any bad intend on your side. I might be wrong there. But it somehow made some sense for me while that wearing thing did not.
Click to expand...

If it is hidden, by definition it is concealed. No two ways about it. It's not about bad intent, it's whether it is hidden. What's so complicated about that?
 
Folderguy said:
If it is hidden, by definition it is concealed. No two ways about it. It's not about bad intent, it's whether it is hidden. What's so complicated about that?
Click to expand...

He is in a different country.

Also for example, I came from a different country, New York City. :p All knives MUST be concealed. Concealed there means nothing showing, not even a clip, not even printing.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
He is in a different country.

Also for example, I came from a different country, New York City. :p All knives MUST be concealed. Concealed there means nothing showing, not even a clip, not even printing.
Click to expand...

Wow. Printing means the actual printing on say the blade of the knife, or the outline of a knife showing on trousers or in a coat, etc?
 
rookie4real said:
Good find, combined with RCW 9.41.250(2) that means absolutely no concealed fixed blades over 3".:(
Click to expand...

The way I read it, it says nothing about being fixed blade or not. It says any knife with a blade over 3 inches. I'm glad I live in a state where you're generally not hassled about these things unless you're doing something criminal.
 
Esav, printing would give PC to ask to see the knife to determine if it is in fact legal or not, but it does not violate the Admin Code prohibiting the carry of exposed knife. Don't give them new ideas!!!...lol
 
So. After I was done reading through all the posts and getting confused I have come up with this: I cannot wear a neck knife in the state of Utah, correct?
 
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