Neck knifes in CA?

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pythondrummer

Joined
Oct 2, 2006
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just wondering, i would think that those knives worn in a sheath around the neck would definitely be considered concealed, but some of them are very small maybe it wouldn't be considered a weapon, so does blade size matter?


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for example, this little guy, the Mid-tech Hellion by Nemesis Knives has a 1.63" blade
 
The dagger and dirk laws provide some degree of flexibility in interpretation. this is obviously not a double bladed stabbing knife, but that detail will probably be lost on your average cop.

According to my limited experience, LEOs look down on fixed bladed knives not worn on the belt, and i've been told that if they're not 100% visible, they are considered to be concealed. (this means you can be wearing a blade legally on your belt, and the second you don a winter coat, in the eyes of the police you become a criminal.)

You can feel free to wear it and argue legality but I've decided on just wearing multiple redundant folding knives instead.
 
trying to avoid breaking laws by wearing a smaller knife around your neck would be a moot point. One of my aunts was arrested and a 1" swiss army keychain knife was recorded as a 'weapon' on the police report. the only length restrictions specified in california knife law that i know of involve taking blades into educational institutions.
 
thanks rottwang for the info, but is there any solid info as to the size a concealed knife has to be to be considered a weapon?

i guess i could always wear it outside the shirt, but i'd prefer inside my shirt.
 
regarding any fixed blade knife, see penal code section 12020 (a) any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.....

(4) carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

12020(c)(24): a dirk or dagger means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death.

the only exemption i have found is 12020 (d): knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed with in the meaning of this section.

the conclusions i draw are as such: a neck knife in any form is illegal in ca. of course the discretion of the officer is always something to consider. regarding the woman arrested and a small knife booked as evidence, the crime she was booked for likely played a role in determining the swiss army type knife was a weapon.
 
pythondrummer said:
thanks rottwang for the info, but is there any solid info as to the size a concealed knife has to be to be considered a weapon?

i guess i could always wear it outside the shirt, but i'd prefer inside my shirt.
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a folding knife is the only knife you can carry concealed, but is in violation of concealed carry laws if carried in the open and locked position.
 
rottwang said:
trying to avoid breaking laws by wearing a smaller knife around your neck would be a moot point. One of my aunts was arrested and a 1" swiss army keychain knife was recorded as a 'weapon' on the police report. the only length restrictions specified in california knife law that i know of involve taking blades into educational institutions.
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length restrictions also apply to switchblade/automatic knives. a 'ca legal' switchblade must have a blade under two inches. beyond that you are correct, blade length is generally irrelevant.

re your aunt, the one inch knife may have been booked as a weapon for a number of reasons, such as: if she was booked for a violent crime/crime against person, the officer booking listed as a weapon per dept policy, the officer always books any size knife as a weapon, etc.
 
so u say a neck knife in any form is illegal in CA?

so then knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the neck are illegal even if they are in plain view?
 
pythondrummer said:
so u say a neck knife in any form is illegal in CA?

so then knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the neck are illegal even if they are in plain view?
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yes, it must be worn openly suspended from the belt. ca laws are extremely restrictive.
but again, and i am not suggesting you wear your neck knife, an individual officers discretion may play a large role, ie, he/she does not have to arrest you if they dont want to. the 12020 sections are 'wobblers', meaning the offender may be charged with either a misdemeanor or felony. circumstances surrounding the arrest usually determine whether the offender is booked on a misd or fel.
 
also consider a neck knife worn openly begs investigation. once a person says they carry any item for protection, it becomes a weapon.

carried concealed it would only be seen if you unsheathed it or were searched by officers for other reasons.

i would reccomend you dont carry it, even otherwise law abiding citizens will be arrested by the right (or wrong!) officer.
 
i know it's not you man, but thats just ridiculous. its doesnt make any sense.

i really dont see why it matters where it is, as long as it is out in the open and in plain view.

maybe i'll get one for just the woods.

well, thanks a lot for the info. i appreciate it.
 
the only exemption i have found is the one i mentioned earlier. i am pretty well versed in these sections, however there may have been something i missed. you may want to research for yourself. just google california penal code knife laws, you should get some good resources.
 
I was going to reply about the neck knife gig...but morimotom covered it well here. I am impressed with the knowledge.
If you wear a fixed blade, even in a sheath, and it can't be seen, it is considered concealed. Face it, LEOs don't like knives on us and if ya try to stretch the letter of the law, you're most likely gonna get nailed as you probably got hassled for something else to begin with. The PC morimotom referenced regarding worn from the belt is strictly enforced in my 'hood (510).
 
While I usually agree with MORIMOTOM, I differ on this one. There is no question that a concealed fix bladed neck knife is illegal. My reading of the statute, however, is that an unconcealed fixed blade (in its sheath) does not violate the law and that the reference to belt carry is an example, not an exclusion. I am not advocating this mode of carry, however, as I don't think its smart to carry fixed blades at all in California, unless your out in the woods. Your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
Argyll said:
... as I don't think its smart to carry fixed blades at all in California, unless your out in the woods. Your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
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Yeah, me and some guys I hang with have discussed the "belt" language in statute. The fact that it is vague to most readers implies, to me anyway, that it could be "vague' to the officer that wants to talk to ya.

Your advice is well heeded, if ya don't want to be hassled, don't do it.
 
i think if you ask almost anyone where a belt is worn, they will say around the waist. you could try and exploit the 'ambiguity' in court, but may have spent a couple days in jail prior.

while the penal code often cites examples, the belt carry is listed as a separate section, which indicates either an exemption or ammendment to the overall section.
 
Not to beat a dead horse, but as quoted in your earlier post, the law plainly forbids "concealed carry." A big bowie knife worn openly in a shoulder holster styled sheath outside one's clothing, for example, would not likely fit the legal definition of concealed. Again, I'm not advocating it, because undoubtedly one would get hassled in an urban setting, but I feel quite strongly that it would not violate the law as written.

The language of subdivision (d) does not limit the definition of unconcealed, but rather gives an example. I believe it is likely that because the police sometimes have a hard time believing any fixed blade carry is legal, the legislature chose to make particularly clear that its not concealed when you wear it openly on your belt.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Best regards,

Jake
 
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