Need a new stone. And are those little ceramic sharpeners any good?

[moabblade]

I need a new home sharpening stone. And a new lightweight field sharpener too:

I recently picked up an ESEE 5 and customized it a bit. Etched the markings and stripped the paint and bleach etched the blade. But when I went to resharpen it with my old medium and fine stone (something you'd find in a tool box) I could not get the same edge as came from the factory. Man was that thing nice and sharp! What would be a good entry level stone for home sharpening? What's the go to cheap stone set up. Say medium on one side and fine on the other?

As for the "field sharpening device":

It's been 30 years since I used one of those little "V" shaped knife sharpeners. Like the little tiny ones? Made of two ceramic rods? And it messed up the blade with weird waves - on whatever knife I was using it on. I think it was a cheap filet knife. And the sharpener came in the sheath. Do they still suck? Any improvements made to them? Any brand and model you'd recommend? I'm aware of the larger Landsky bench types. But I'd really like to find something small. Like the little keychain or handheld ones.

Have these little sharpeners improved any over the years? I'm thinking more for taking one on a bug out or hunting trip. Where weight is key. But I obviously don't want to ruin the edge either.

So it's kind of a two part question. I'd like something better to sharpen my knife with at home. But if I could find something lightweight and long lasting as well (meaning in addition to the home set up) that would be a plus. Not to into the whole sandpaper method. But something like a lightweight diamond stone (which I have - Ragweed Forge - but have not tried on the ESEE 5 yet) or one of those little ceramic sharpeners might work ok? I'm usually good at sharpening knifes with a stone. Learned since I was a youngster. I could give the Ragweed diamond stone a try. It's lightweight. But was just thinking about those little ceramic ones and wondering if they are any good? Or if I'm poo pooing them unnecessarily? Are they still crap?

Regards,

Patrick

 

[Jason B.]

The common misconception is that you have entry level or beginner stones, this is wrong. Most stones are of quality and can make a knife sharp. The real difference comes in quality and what level of perfection you require.

Next is budget, you can find quality stones from $20 to $500 each.

Sharpening has come a long way in the past few years which in truth has just made the selection of tools that much more confusing.

 

[moabblade]

The common misconception is that you have entry level or beginner stones, this is wrong. Most stones are of quality and can make a knife sharp. The real difference comes in quality and what level of perfection you require.

Next is budget, you can find quality stones from $20 to $500 each.

Sharpening has come a long way in the past few years which in truth has just made the selection of tools that much more confusing.

What's a good stone in the $20-$30 range? And do those little ceramic ones work?

 

[Jason B.]

Norton India combo stone, and no, those little ceramic sharpeners should be avoided.

 

[moabblade]

Norton India combo stone, and no, those little ceramic sharpeners should be avoided.

So would the Ragweed Forge diamond stone be the best option for lightweight hiking? It's a piece of sheet metal about the size of a small pocket comb. With diamond on both sides. Not good for rough work. But a nice finisher. Maybe to nice for field work. Any suggestions for lightweight?

Searching Norton India now. Much abliged!

 

[Jason B.]

You can get small pocket India stones too.

 

[Bob6794]

The typical stone we recommend is the norton IB8 which is one of the stones Jason B was referring to. Most people find the 8x2x1 dimensions quite useable. And for the most part I haven't really seen any real reason to get the 6in version usually when the price difference is usually a couple dollars at most (and this is coming from a guy who likes 6x2 stones).

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-India-Stone-P69C25.aspx

A small india stone will work good for hiking. Though if you're one of those guys who worry about every gram/ounce of weight you can use sandpaper. Just cut it and use double sided tape and put it on a credit card. One side a "coarse" grit and the other side "fine". Or use whatever else you please to secure it to something flat to sharpen. Though you will be limited to edge trailing strokes as if you were stropping so you don't accidentally cut into the sandpaper.

 

[moabblade]

The typical stone we recommend is the norton IB8 which is one of the stones Jason B was referring to. Most people find the 8x2x1 dimensions quite useable. And for the most part I haven't really seen any real reason to get the 6in version usually when the price difference is usually a couple dollars at most (and this is coming from a guy who likes 6x2 stones).

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-India-Stone-P69C25.aspx

A small india stone will work good for hiking. Though if you're one of those guys who worry about every gram/ounce of weight you can use sandpaper. Just cut it and use double sided tape and put it on a credit card. One side a "coarse" grit and the other side "fine". Or use whatever else you please to secure it to something flat to sharpen. Though you will be limited to edge trailing strokes as if you were stropping so you don't accidentally cut into the sandpaper.

Funny. I picked up the IB8 last night after reading Jason's posts. I had an old Walmart gift card in my wallet. Was a little more expensive. But the card was about to expire. I think it will be the perfect shop table stone for home. At least for my budget. I also remembered I had a small stone in my hunting stuff. Those little 1x3 inchers. It's perfect for hiking. That and the diamond blade from Ragweed Forge.

BTW how am "supposed" to use the Ragweed Forge diamond sharpener? Like I said, its just a small piece of sheet metal covered in diamond abrasive. Wet? Dry? Oil? Water? I have to admit I used it dry a bit. But it left marks on the stone. So I'm asking now. lol!

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(...)BTW how am "supposed" to use the Ragweed Forge diamond sharpener? Like I said, its just a small piece of sheet metal covered in diamond abrasive. Wet? Dry? Oil? Water? I have to admit I used it dry a bit. But it left marks on the stone. So I'm asking now. lol!

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

You can use the diamond sharpener dry or with any other liquid, such as water, dish soap + water, or mineral oil. I generally use mine dry, especially since I hold the hone in use (wet/soapy/oily hones get slippery). Just wipe the surface periodically to remove excess swarf; a microfiber towel works great for this, or a Windex-moistened paper towel also works very well.

Don't worry about the marks or streaks left by sharpening, on the hone. It's normal for these, and will still happen even if used wet. Some of the streaks will just be swarf (metal) taken from your edge, and much of that will clean off; otherwise, they'll just be burnishing marks left by the blade on the nickel plating (no harm there).


David

 

[22-rimfire]

Norton India combo stone, and no, those little ceramic sharpeners should be avoided.

Why should the ceramic V sharpeners be avoided? I have used them for years. I suspect you're going to tell me something about the grind angle.

The Norton India stones work well for everything but the hardest steels. I use diamonds for them.

 

[Jason B.]

Why should the ceramic V sharpeners be avoided? I have used them for years. I suspect you're going to tell me something about the grind angle.

The Norton India stones work well for everything but the hardest steels. I use diamonds for them.

You could start with the fixed angle then talk about the low quality or how it will always produce a burr to one side of the blade or maybe how they are simply inferior sharpening tools to even the basic hardware stone. They might work in a pinch for someone that just wants a semi-sharp edge and has absolutely not a care in the world for their cutting tools.

It's the type of tool I imagine being used by the same person buying the no name gut hook knife from Walmart.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Why should the ceramic V sharpeners be avoided? I have used them for years. I suspect you're going to tell me something about the grind angle.

The Norton India stones work well for everything but the hardest steels. I use diamonds for them.

The OP's own description of the 'waves' along the edge highlights one of the damaging drawbacks of these sharpeners:

(...)And it messed up the blade with weird waves - on whatever knife I was using it on. (...)

The edge comes to 'rest' in the bottom of the 'V' formed at the intersection of the two closely-arranged ceramic inserts. With just the tiniest bit of pressure exerted downward while the edge is in there, one side of the edge will be pressured by the insert on one side, and the other side of the edge will be pressured from the insert on the other side. So you have a small section of edge being bent to the right, and an adjacent section of the edge being bent to the left. Hence the 'waves' along the edge. This is something similar to trying to cut a piece of heavy paper with dull scissors; you'll end up with the edge of the paper getting 'pinched' between the two closely-arranged 'blades' of the scissor, instead of being cut, and the wavy edge will be the result.

(BTW, Jason B.'s comment, re: 'they might work in a pinch', is almost profoundly true. )

The closed 'V' at the bottom of the sharpener is what makes them potentially damaging to a fine edge, if pressure is a little heavy. Even more damage will be done with the sharp scissor-edged carbide inserts used in most of the pull-throughs, as they'll actually pinch the edge hard and rip it. At least the round ceramic inserts aren't quite capable of ripping the edge, but will still do some damage with too-heavy pressure, magnified by the dead-stop wedging effect in the bottom of the 'V'.


David

 

[22-rimfire]

I don't use them much, but I do use them occasionally for touch up. Maybe I need to reconsider. I mostly use DMT diamond stones (fine and very fine). I do prefer to sharpen by hand. Been using the India Stone off and on too after Ethan Becker recommended it while were were visiting about a year or so ago. Yep, India Stone and WD-40.

What you all said made sense. I never actually pushed or moved my blade all the way down into the "V" when I use them. Burr edge.... get those on most any sharpener.

It's the type of tool I imagine being used by the same person buying the no name gut hook knife from Walmart.

Don't care for gut hooks, but I do own a SOG Revolver Hunter from years ago. Does that qualify?