Need a safe

johnwaynesandw

johnwaynesandw

Joined
Mar 18, 2005
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I am looking for a fireproof safe that is floor mountable for under $200. Do you guys have any suggestions? I would really appreciate any info.
Thanks, John :)
 
You should be able to find a UL-listed "fire-resistant container" (we don't say "safe") in that price range at an office supply store.

Keep in mind that while it may have the classic appearance of a "safe," dial combination lock, bolt lever, etc, it is not UL listed as a "security container" and not really intended for security. The lock is for privacy only.

For somewhere between $200 and $300, you can, at a gun shop, get a UL listed "residential security container." But, at that price, it will not also be UL listed as a fire-resistant container.
 
Every now and then you can get a pretty good deal at Atwoods if you have one of those stores near you. I got my fireproof safe there but it was like $1300. It is the biggest one they offer too so that is why.

Our local store has some smaller fireproof safes but they are still going to be over your price limit. I think the smallest fireproof one they have in the showroom is like $400 plus or minus but it only holds like five rifles or shotguns. I bought a $109 plate steel regular safe at a tent sale that came to town one weekend because it was 1/4" plate and a real safe but not fireproof. That is the best deal I've ever seen on a safe that actually was more than just sheet metal in construction.

The thing about buying a safe that no one thinks about is how you get it home. I had mine delievered and the guys that delivered it beat it all up and chipped the paint off of it getting it in my house. I accepted a $200 credit rather than make them redeliver it but there was a fee involved with delivery for over 25 miles away.

Also, there is a difference between fire resistant and fire proof. Read the fine print to see what temps the safe will hold up to.
 
I'd also recommend that if you find one you like and decide to have it delivered that you open the box of the exact safe you purchased with the store manager present and take out the combination and keys before anyone else has a chance to see it or make note of it.

Just my own word of caution from an experience a friend had where he immediately got broken into shortly after buying a nice safe that had only one key when he got it home. Well, they caught the guy that broke in to his home on the way out the drive way. It was one of the delivery guys and guess where the other key went. Needless to say he had a copy of the combination as well.

Just FYI
 
STR said:
Also, there is a difference between fire resistant and fire proof. Read the fine print to see what temps the safe will hold up to.
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UL does not rate any container as "Fire Proof." There's really no such thing.

There's "Fire-Resistant," but even that comes in different grades. Check the lable for details. Also bear in mind that the standard is based on protecting paper records. The standard is to keep the interior of the container below 350F which is low enough not to damage paper records. But, many knives could be damaged by exposure to temperatures that high. So, you may want to get a much higher rated container than you think you need so that the interior will stay well below 350F.

Here is one from Office Depot for $140.

But, again, this is a fire-resistant container, not a security container. This one will keep its interior below 350F for a full hour at 1700F. It has a combination lock and a key lock, but it's not really intended for security. You can bolt it down and that will help. Unless bolted down, it is small and light enough that someone could just pick it up and carry it off and open it at their convenience later. If bolted down, it might discourage the average residential burgler. The best thing to do with this sort of container is bolt it to the floor in the corner of a closet. With the walls around it and in a confined space, it's harder to pry it up. For best fire protection, but it against an outside wall of the house. If a fire, that will have the greatest chance of staying the coolest.
 
This is true, I guess what I was saying is to make sure of what level of protection or grade, as you put it, you are getting.
 
My big safe is the FR-35 by Liberty AKA Freedom Safe with a 1200 degree 30 minute rating with a max internal temp of 275 degrees before it has reached it's limits of protection. I wanted a better safe but couldn't find one local and one thing with safes you probably don't want to mess with is long distance shipping by freight. Mine was damaged just going down the street.

What I did was put one of those smaller higher rated safes inside my bigger one. I got it at Lowes for about the same money as the one Gollnick put a link to. It is the max rating too so maybe that is your best bet.
 
Well,I used to work for Sentry Safe. Worlds largest maker of fire safes.American owned and made (ok some stuff is now farmed out to China).

Sentry is the leader in fire safes and one of a hand full of companies allowed by U. L. to do their own in house U.L. tests.

I have many of their safes. When I worked on the shipping dock I would some times have to break into returned safes.Now I know how and had the right tools and making noise was ok. And still it would take time,effort and knowledge even though these were fire safes not burglar ones.Even fire safes are made with things like drive wheels and mounting tumblers on bushings so one can't "punch it" and other steps made to make it harder to break in.

No they don't meet U.L. requirements for theft,but some kid with a big screwdriver and ten minutes of time isn't getting in either.

www.sentrysafe.com

Now these are made mostly to protect papers and the like. They work by holding moisture in suspention. That is the mix in between the walls holds moisture that when heated up absorbs the heat. When storing guns,knives etc. you need to open the doors to let fresh air in and you need to keep decadent in there to absorb it also.Now that was a big problem 20 years ago in fact the insides of the safe could rust if left closed to long. Today the problem seems to be well taken care of with new ways of making the safes. In fact I don't have trouble with it,but it is something to watch for.
 
Thanks you guys very much for all the help. I know I could count on all the nice and helpful people here. My wife says thanks also.( I got her to read some things on the forum) :D Thanks John
 
Walmart, end of hunting season. Visit them daily. They'll blow them out end of season.

before you insist on fireproof, think about this, and I'm looking to get other thoughts on this topic. Aside from irreplaceable items: grandpa's shotgun, collectables, etc. What good does a fireproof (resistant) safe do?

Remember, they're not fireproof, they just resist certain temperatures for certain periods of time. I guess my point is, do I want to hold and use a firearm that has been in a safe at 1,500 degrees for 30 minutes (or whatever time/heat the safe can withstand)? For documents, and other items I can see being able to use them after they've been cooked, as long as they didn't burn. But do I want to shoot a gun that's been in an oven?

Lonestar Guns caught fire last year and they posted pictures on their site. Every gun in the place was ruined. Most of them rusted beyond repair in 30 mintues. (A fireproof or resistant safe is not water proof). The heat and moisture destroyed these guns, although most of them were on the racks.

Lastly, my wife is in the insurance business and tells me that it's much easier and quicker to get replacement value for the guns, then to have one appraised for damage and repaired (too much room for interpratation as to what actually needs to be done to the gun, etc.). It's a crappy deal I know, but it's the world we live in.

Thoughts?
 
josywales3 said:
Walmart, end of hunting season. Visit them daily. They'll blow them out end of season.

before you insist on fireproof, think about this, and I'm looking to get other thoughts on this topic. Aside from irreplaceable items: grandpa's shotgun, collectables, etc. What good does a fireproof (resistant) safe do?

Remember, they're not fireproof, they just resist certain temperatures for certain periods of time. I guess my point is, do I want to hold and use a firearm that has been in a safe at 1,500 degrees for 30 minutes (or whatever time/heat the safe can withstand)? For documents, and other items I can see being able to use them after they've been cooked, as long as they didn't burn. But do I want to shoot a gun that's been in an oven?

Lonestar Guns caught fire last year and they posted pictures on their site. Every gun in the place was ruined. Most of them rusted beyond repair in 30 mintues. (A fireproof or resistant safe is not water proof). The heat and moisture destroyed these guns, although most of them were on the racks.

Lastly, my wife is in the insurance business and tells me that it's much easier and quicker to get replacement value for the guns, then to have one appraised for damage and repaired (too much room for interpratation as to what actually needs to be done to the gun, etc.). It's a crappy deal I know, but it's the world we live in.

Thoughts?
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Well I never looked at it this way. The reason my wife and I were looking into getting a safe was the fact we are going to Denver, CO. I normaly carry my gun and knives in a sniper bag when we leave town. This will be Our first time fling and we all know how that goes with knives, and guns. I have heard that it is possible to fly with them, but I have heard of thinkgs missing from your bag. We just though It would be a good investment to get a safe. I would love to have a nice gun safe, but we are young , just bought a house , still paying on a truck and It seems like I always want another knife when I have a few extra bucks in my pocket. :D The other option was to take my knives and the two guns to my mother in laws house while were are gone. ( she is a sweat ladie that does not mind watching my loved iteams). any way thanks for all the input I am not sure what we should get at this min. (when we do something we like to do it right and it seems $200 might be a liitle cheap for a good safe and I am trying to talk my wife into a nice safe. :D Thanks a lot for all the help, John
 
We used to get all kinds of letters from folks who lost everything in their house but what was in the safe.Photos of long past family memebers heirlooms etc. I would get one. Put it in the basement in a corner hinge side out from wall and bolt it down,some used to be made so you could build a form around them and cement them in.Now cover it with an old box.Being married and a truck and home owner your going to have to store all kinds of paperwork along with knives/guns.

In mine are inventories of everything I own ,tax records,deeds,titles to cars,old newspapers with my kids in them,photos,insurance papers,medical records,tax bills.If we were to lose everything in a fire I can not only give my agent a list of everything I owned and when I bought it but show them photos and vidios of the stuff. At tax time I will still have all the medical records and so forth I will need for that year, I will not have to get replacement titles for our cars,or new birth certificates,wedding liscense passports etc.Because these will survive the fire.That is a LOT less work to do.While you can't put them under water,you could hit them with a straight stream flowing 150 gpm and it'll stay dry inside.
 
Yup, a lot of good information in this thread.

The Sentry safes are quite good for what they are and cost. (Some of their higher-end business safes are quite good). In the under-$200 range, they've got a great product. Even though it is not UL listed as a security container, once bolted down it should deter the average residential burgler.

Most fire-resistant containers keep their interior temperature low by releasing water stored in the gypsum which lines the interior walls of the safe (they're lined with a product called UL Fire Board which is basically fancy dry wall, sheet rock, the same stuff used in home construction. In fact, in many cities, when appartments of similar buildings are built, the walls between units are made with UL Fire Board instead of ordinary sheet rock. UL Fire Board costs only a little more than standard sheet rock.) Elevated temperatures accelerate rust. Between the heat and the humidity, rust is quite possible.

Computer media, CDs, floppy disks, etc., are much more heat-sensitive than paper. Sentry and others sell special fire-resistant containers to protect those materials.

As for insurance, keep in mind that most home owners or renters policies have a sub-limit on guns. A policy that has $100,000 in content protection may then have a sub-limit of only $1000 on guns. Heck, one or two nice guns (not even really high-end stuff) can consume that. The reasons for the low sublimit are that guns are very high-theft items and also more commonly involved than other property types in insurance fraud.

Knives may easily fall under the category of "Collectibles" defined as anything that has special value due to its artistic merit, scarcity, age, or history. Again, most home owners and renters policies have special sublimits for collectibles.
 
johnwaynesandw said:
I have heard that it is possible to fly with them, but I have heard of thinkgs missing from your bag.
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It's perfectly possible to fly with firearms... unloaded, declared, and in checked, hard-sided, locked luggage. It sounds like a hassle, but it really isn't. On the other hand, do you really want to haul all your guns on vacation with you? Probably not.


We just though It would be a good investment to get a safe.
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Keep in mind that for most people the purchase of a home safe is tax-deductible. Depending on your tax bracket, this is like getting about 30% of the purchase price refunded by Uncle Sam. Consult a tax professional for advice about your specific situation.


The other option was to take my knives and the two guns to my mother in laws house while were are gone. ( she is a sweat ladie that does not mind watching my loved iteams).
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Don't do it. God forbid that the stuff should be stolen out of her house. It would just create trouble in the family, and that's the last place you want any trouble or hard feelings or anything.


Depending on the size of your stuff, a bank deposit box is another option. They usually insist on a yearly rental. Two handguns and 20 knives? Well, it varies depending on the market and how big the guns and knives are, but you're probably taking about $150-$250/year. Your own bank where you have your other accounts may give a discount.
 
johnwaynesandw said:
I'm sorry, I didn't specify. Just one big enough to hold a pistol, about 25 knives and some cash.
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It isn't the size of the safe that is the issue. The safe must be heavy enough so that two men can't carry it and it needs to be fire proof. Otherwise, it isn't a safe. It's a container.
 
Ok just wanted to run something by you guys. We have a small shop behind the house (a 12x12 storage building with electicity) we were thinking of pulling up the piece of the floor and digging a hole to place the safe in with the door facing up. We would have to lift the part of the floor to get to the safe, but we figure it would not be much trouble. Is this a good idea? would the ground produce to much moisture? Any thoughts? I was reading up on some safes info and read that the fire resistant safes produced moisture from the insulation, would this amount of moisture be a concern for knives and guns? Thanks, John
 
Living in Oklahoma I can tell you a bit about storm shelters which are basically the same concept as what you just described. I moved here from Arizona just knowing that because we were moving to 'tornado alley' that surely every home we would look at would be with a full basement and/or storm shelter. Well, rude awakening: there are very few basements here. And yes we do have trailer parks! Who'd a thunk it?

I built my own storm shelter in 1999. 8" thick reinforced poured concrete walls slab floor and ceiling, gasoline electric generator and room for 10 people. I'll never work with concrete again. I've always said I'd try anything once. That was it. When concrete is wet and 8' tall it is some scary stuff.

Anyway, it cost me about $3000 to do it myself and that includes renting the back hoe to dig the hole.

As for moisture. All you have to do to make a pond is dig a hole and the water will come. Everyday that I went to work I had to pump water out first.

Drain the floor with good PVC drains, and gravel. Reinforce it and pour.

For water seal I used Dry Loc. Nothing else worked to keep the water out. This is the same stuff they use for sealing cement swimming pools. Expensive but it works great. The cement people can help by adding more lime to the mix for the floor and ceiling but the walls will seep if you don't paint them with the dry loc inside and a good tar base outside that is pretty thick. Even after all of this you will still need a dehumidifier if you plan to store anything in it.

I used a 22 Cal. nail gun to install shelves in the shelter for canned goods. About every two years I'll walk out to get a can of soup or some other such thing and one of the shelves will have fallen off the wall. The reason: Moisture and rust eats through the nails. I don't have a drying system in mine but if I were going to store guns I would have to have it.
 
I used a fire resistant safe to store my pistols in and when I opened it a few weeks later I found rust on several of them. Forunately I was able to clean them up without too much trouble. I use dessicant but renew and change it on a frequent basis.

I personally would never buy another fire resistant safe for storing rust prone objects. If theft is the primary issue just stick with a strong safe that is difficult to break into and don't worry about it's fire resistance.
 
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