Need advice sharpening/stropping with current tools

[longhornjake]

Hi, All,

I have been lurking on here for some time and finally joined the forum. I have come to really appreciate the amazing work posted here and wondered if anyone would give a little specific advice.
1) I want to get my blades sharp enough for EDC and a couple (BMs) razor sharp. The Large fixed blades will be used for bush crafting/outdoor use.
2) I want to use what I already have without having to buy more (at least until I become more proficient technique wise).

I recently bought a couple of gently used Benchmades (mini griptilian and mini barrage (S30V version)) and sent them in for factory reconditioning and sharpening. I was impressed at the results and don't think I had ever owned a knife so sharp. I began to really look up tips on sharpening which led me here. In my scouting days, I used a small honing stone (in the distant past) and a metal file or my Dad's bench grinder for my hatchets/mattocks/machete. I have tried a few different things in the past (see below), but with the newer, nicer blades, I want to hone my craft. Pun intended.

I bought a couple of new sharpeners after I started lurking here and already had several, and I am trying to use what I have without buying more. The types of blades I will be sharpening are predominantly pocket knives, mostly Gerber with mostly unknown steel, a few fixed blades, and some outdoor tools. I listed what tools I have below in relative order of purchase.

I have the following sharpeners:
small folding (blue) diamond grit coarse (I believe, not sure of the brand) - in a drawer somewhere - wasn't sure it was sharpening anymore so I quit using it - had for more than 15 years
Smith's PP1 Pocket Pal Multifunction Sharpener (about 4-5 years) - I have read pull thrus are bad but never saw exactly why other than stripping too much metal?
Buck Knives 97070 Retractable Diamond Pocket Knife Sharpener (stays in my EDC bag for quick touch ups on the go)
Smith's 3 in 1 Knife and Tool Sharpener (about 2 years)
Lansky Dual-Grit Puck Sharpener with Lansky Nathans Natural Honing Oil 4 oz Bottle - mainly for my hatchets and Woodman's Pal (s). (about 2 years)
Tandy hand strop (for my leather work tools) with jeweler's rouge- been in a drawer, forgotten for a couple of years, as I never became proficient at using (& never sharpened) my swivel knife
Smith's 50264 Adjustable Manual Knife Sharpener - bought recently after watching one of those tactical survival YouTube channels

after reading forums:
Work Sharp WSGFS221 Guided Field Sharpener (rec by Gideon's tactical) about 3 months
Lansky PS-MED01 BladeMedic (2 weeks) - impulse buy
Woodstock D2902 1-Pound Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green (2 weeks) - for use on my old Everlast leather weightlifting belt, which I have gently outgrown. LOL Jewelers rouge worked well the first couple of times

Blades include mostly folders: my 2 BMs, several Gerbers (Remix tactical, Paramilitary combo, paraframe, many multitools) SOG mini slim Jim (got it razor sharp stropping), Buck Hunter, and a few fixed blades: Mora Companion knife, BG Ultimate Pro knife Fine edge, Gerber StrongArm fine edge, plus a few tools (Woodsman's Pal, mattock, machete, several hatchets).

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

jake

 

[Jason B.]

Welcome to BF!

I would start by throwing all draw through scrapping devices in the garbage. Next, buy a full size (8in) stone, if you have an ACE hardware nearby grab one of their combo stone and start on your least favorite blade. Get a good feel for grinding bevels on the coarse stone and understanding when the burr has formed completely at the apex. It's a fairly hard binder Aluminum Oxide stone so, with proper technique you can obtain very sharp edges right from the stone. Follow with a strop and it could easily surpass any factory edge.

For stropping I would recommend switching to a block of wood. I use balsa or pre cut 3in wide strips of poplar from HD. I like the harder poplar a bit more after a little surface sanding with 320 grit, the hard smooth surface provides precise feedback and quick cutting action because the abrasive is not "cushioned" by a soft substrate. I would also switch it up to some DMT 3 Micron diamond paste.

 

[bucketstove]

Hi, All,

I have been lurking on here for some time and finally joined the forum. I have come to really appreciate the amazing work posted here and wondered if anyone would give a little specific advice.
1) I want to get my blades sharp enough for EDC and a couple (BMs) razor sharp. The Large fixed blades will be used for bush crafting/outdoor use.
2) I want to use what I already have without having to buy more (at least until I become more proficient technique wise).

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

jake

Hi,
thats a great great strategy,
learn to make the best of the equipment you already own,

i would start with the worksharp because its basically a bench stone,
just remember to use it lightly with lube(water) so the diamonds last longer
so put your worksharp on scale,
then take knife in hand and put it on the worksharp,
scale should read less than 1lb (or 1/2lb),
learn what that feels like and then try not to press harder

next step would be to pick short/thin blade, like kitchen paring knife, swiss army knife,
something you're willing sharpen over and over for practice,
and sharpen it three times in a row,
5 minute each time

the goal is to raise a burr so you know what one feels like, and cut it off so your edge will last and shave without pain (burrs are sharp but they fold/break)

so worksharp 20 degree setting,
scrub left side for 2 min , feel for burr with your finger tips, then switch sides
scrub right side 2 min until burr
try slicing some printer paper or newspaper so you know what it feels like slicing with a burr
next part is cut off burr,
so lower the force,
and double the angle (or try 25 degree angle guide)
and do 1-4 alternating passes per side , super light,
try slicing printer paper/newspaper so you know what that feels like
check with your fingertips feeling for burr
if you still feel burr, do it again, 1-4 alternating pases

after this knife will easily shave some arm hairs (or a lot), and will slice printer paper (or newspaper) easily

the long part is raising the burr,
which requires keeping/maintaining the angle,
the worksharp guides should help you with that

so sharpen three times in a row,
think about what you're doing,
and report back how it went and ask questions


everything after that is small details/adjustments/tricks/advancements,
it doesn't take a lot of practice to get shaving sharp, just watch what you're doing, think about it, make adjustments ...

 

[lutejones]

I'm with bucketstove on this one, the worksharp is basically a bench stone and should be adequate to learn on.
I'll recommend you trying to get shaving sharpness out of the stone without further cleaning of the apex before getting into finer media.
Once you master the soft touch that is needed on the diamond with soft steels, you're on your way to amazing edges.
You'll go all the way to super polished like most of us went only to come back to around 500-600 grit like a lot of us settle in for an edge that lasts and cuts aggressively being fine enough to shave.

Hope it helps


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

 

[cbwx34]

The WorkSharp you have is the Field Sharpener... great device and while you can learn on it, it's not the best route. Follow Jason's advice... much easier to learn on a larger stone. He also has a lot of YouTube videos... here's one to get you started...

[video=youtube;XgOXvtJDm5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgOXvtJDm5E[/video]

Once you learn the basics you'll understand why (and how) the Field Sharpener should be used for what it's designed for... a quality touchup device for field use (but one that will do a bit more than most other field sharpeners).

 

[scott.livesey]

i would get a good coarse/fine oilstone, i prefer a Norton Crystolon which is silicon carbide and some light mineral oil. with some practice, you should be able to get you blades shaving sharp with just the coarse side. i would give any pull thru sharpeners to goodwill or in-laws. Harbor Freight markets a 4-in-1 diamond set(200,300,400,& 600 grit) that works well if you keep the pressure light. I use my oil stones for setting bevels and repairs, the 4-in-1 for initial sharpening, then one of these for between use touch-ups http://www.jewelstik.com/hardware-store/diamond-hones i like the 12"x 2" because it is long enough to use with almost any knife
scott

 

[longhornjake]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Are any of the pull thrus useful for the thin rods alone? Turns out most of my cheaper folders are all combo blades. No ACE hardware store nearby, so I have to drive an hour or more to get to a Home Depot, Lowe's, or Academy. It may actually be easier to order from Amazon. I will try ordering one of the cheaper DMT stones or keep working with the flat surface of the Smith set for now. I tried using the pocket worksharp, but as scott pointed out, it has limitations. One question I already came across is how do you keep that 20 deg angle if the guide is such that you have to go forward with it? Thanks for the tips. I will keep watching videos and keep practicing.

 

[bucketstove]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Are any of the pull thrus useful for the thin rods alone? Turns out most of my cheaper folders are all combo blades.

Hi,

Yes, all the rods are useful for sharpening serrations,
but even the tungsten carbide slots are useful up to a point
its just that they're not stones
and good instructions are hard to find

Steve Bottorff gives a short review of a few, the rest of his free book also makes good reading eventually Knife sharpening with slot devices

This review and video explain how to make the best use of pull through sharpeners
Sharpener Review : Everyday Essentials Two Stage Sharpener

[video=youtube;lgQKgqQEj6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQKgqQEj6g[/video]

the discussion thread is Tungsten Carbide Sharpener it links other videos

I tried using the pocket worksharp, but as scott pointed out, it has limitations. One question I already came across is how do you keep that 20 deg angle if the guide is such that you have to go forward with it?

The guide on the pocket worksharp is an angle reference,
you rest the side of the blade against it,
then with your hands "lock"-in that position and keep blade tilted that way as you stroke away from the guide
naturally you pivot as reach the curved tip portion (see my links above)

When I started sharpening on a stone (one handed, stone in one hand, knife in other),
I was wobbling left and right up and down ,
but eventually I figured how to "hold" an angle,
it involves keeping a finger on top of the handle (or blade)
for ex a thumb on spine and pointer finger on the side
or going the other way, thumb on side and pointer finger on spine

but then I kept forgetting what angle I was holding (like when switching side),
so I made a little paper wedge for angle reference

a clamp-on guide is not hard to make from a clothes pin,
but when you cut with your knife there is nothing clamped on the blade
so there isn't a real need to have one when sharpening

No ACE hardware store nearby, so I have to drive an hour or more to get to a Home Depot, Lowe's, or Academy....

Chances are, you might have a dollar tree closer than an hour,
they can also stones available in store ,
they have them online again and they have ship to store feature...
but they're not perfect but are perfectly servicable $1 stones can be plenty decent

Asian grocery stores also have stones, but they're not as widespread as dollar stores

 

[HeavyHanded]

If using the pull through units make sure to swap side for side every couple of swipes. The inserts tend to have defects and those defects will cut ledges into the edge bevel if you don't change the contact region every so often.

For general sharpening, your Lansky puck can do a lot of work though it might be tough to get right up to the heel on some blades - just set it on a rag or similar to keep it from moving around too much. You can also brace smaller tools on the edge of a bench or table and use the puck just as you would on larger tools, just have to work with smaller movements.

If you use it with oil the mud it forms can be smeared on hard leather, soft wood, or a sheet of paper set over a hard surface for your strop.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

If you have access to a Sears store, their hardware section may also carry a 6" x 2" stone (either SiC or AlOx). Their quality seems to be good as well; their SiC stone in particular is pretty nice, based on the one I found I there.


David

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Are any of the pull thrus useful for the thin rods alone? Turns out most of my cheaper folders are all combo blades. No ACE hardware store nearby, so I have to drive an hour or more to get to a Home Depot, Lowe's, or Academy. It may actually be easier to order from Amazon. I will try ordering one of the cheaper DMT stones or keep working with the flat surface of the Smith set for now. I tried using the pocket worksharp, but as scott pointed out, it has limitations. One question I already came across is how do you keep that 20 deg angle if the guide is such that you have to go forward with it? Thanks for the tips. I will keep watching videos and keep practicing.

 

[aleforme]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Are any of the pull thrus useful for the thin rods alone? Turns out most of my cheaper folders are all combo blades. No ACE hardware store nearby, so I have to drive an hour or more to get to a Home Depot, Lowe's, or Academy. It may actually be easier to order from Amazon. I will try ordering one of the cheaper DMT stones or keep working with the flat surface of the Smith set for now. I tried using the pocket worksharp, but as scott pointed out, it has limitations. One question I already came across is how do you keep that 20 deg angle if the guide is such that you have to go forward with it? Thanks for the tips. I will keep watching videos and keep practicing.

If you do end up buying a DMT stone, look at the angle guide clip. It's about $12 and it's really easy to use an keeps the angle consistent through your strokes. I bought it just to help me keep a consistent edge at first and to get the correct muscle memory in my hand/wrist when sharpening. Worked great and can really with with any stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOM_3Xi8O0

 

[longhornjake]

OK, I was able to buy an 8" ACE Hardware branded stone, fine and coarse grit, while on vacation at South Padre Island. They have an Ace hardware here! Any idea what grit this stone would be? No mention on the packaging. Only knife I have with me is my BM Mini Barrage and a cheap Dive knife. Also, instructions say to use oil for sharpening, but to wet it before wrapping it for storage. Sound backwards to me.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

OK, I was able to buy an 8" ACE Hardware branded stone, fine and coarse grit, while on vacation at South Padre Island. They have an Ace hardware here! Any idea what grit this stone would be? No mention on the packaging. Only knife I have with me is my BM Mini Barrage and a cheap Dive knife. Also, instructions say to use oil for sharpening, but to wet it before wrapping it for storage. Sound backwards to me.

If your ACE stone is like mine, they come completely 'dry' when new. If so, it doesn't hurt to give the stone some time and opportunity to soak up some oil, as it'll keep doing that for a while. If the recommendation is for wetting with oil before storage, that'll help speed up the process of getting the stone sufficiently oiled up, so it'll stay 'wet' a bit longer during sharpening and float the swarf more effectively. Until then, each time you use the stone and apply some oil, you'll likely see the stone drink up a LOT of oil as soon as it hits the stone, like raindrops soaking into dry concrete. I'm actually contemplating immersing one or more of my SiC/AlOx stones in a container of mineral oil for storage, for this reason.

Not sure of the grit on these stones, but I'd guess the 'fine' side to be around ~320-400 grit or so. The 'coarse' side may be something around ~180-220. At any rate, you'll still likely get a lot out of it.


David

 

[Sticky]

I use a similar stone, a 2"x8" Norton Combination India bench stone, at work to keep my and my coworker's knives going. (if they are nice to me. lol). I follow up with about 20 licks on the ceramic crock sticks for a perfectly good working edge that will pop hairs off the arm with ease. That to me, is as sharp as a knife really needs to be.
At home I keep my DMT diamond course/fine/very fine and Spyderco ceramic fine and ultra fine Bench stones for much more refined (and imho completely unnecessary, but fun) polished hair whittling bevels. I can choose which stone to stop at depending how toothy I want it, or take it all the way. on the flip side I can also choose how course I really need to start at depending how bad the edge is to start with. That's a nice option.
No matter what system you have, from bench stones to the most decked out wicked edge, I still am of the belief that a $12 set of crock sticks (maybe even with extra holes drilled at your angles) is good to have around for quick daily maintenance until you have to go back and redo bevels. They are the best thing since sliced baloney imo.

 

[longhornjake]

Hi, Everyone!

So I bit the bullet and bought the DMT 2 plate kit in a wooden box that was recommended by one of the fellas in a different thread: Wooden box with 6" plates: Very Coarse, Coarse, Fine, Very Fine. I also have the ACE stone, which I have been using lately for practice along with the ceramic rod mounted on my bench Smith 3 in 1 kit I had mentioned at the top of this post. I have made some progress with the S30V benchmade, as it is no longer dull, after I killed the edge while I think sharpening at the wrong angle. Funny, but the last time I sharpened it to a (forearm) hair shaving level, I was using the portable Smith Pull thru and ceramic rod using the technique demonstrated above in the Youtube vid Bucketstove posted for me. After that I had to use the knife to pry and some other outdoor activities as I had nothing else and after those uses, I tried using the stone freehand just after I bought it and may have finished off the edge - so dull that I couldn't even cut my thumb with direct pressure. I know, I know, not the proper way to test, but it was noticeably duller than it had been. I realized I probably had the wrong angle on at least one side if not both.

Since then, I have been using my portable worksharp to hold the correct angle but using the ACE stone to sharpen/practice getting that muscle memory, then taking a couple of swipes on the ceramic rods. I haven't had much time to practice, but I can already see the difference. I am trying to figure out how to best use those DMT plates, for home use. Do I add water or oil? Does it matter? I took a couple of swipes, dry on one of the plates, coarse I think, but didn't want to ruin anything. Should I just use the stone & ceramic rods for now and save the DMT plates for special occasions? I figured I would wait for advice, but hadn't been able to post til now & wanted to see what y'all thought.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hi, Everyone!

So I bit the bullet and bought the DMT 2 plate kit in a wooden box that was recommended by one of the fellas in a different thread: Wooden box with 6" plates: Very Coarse, Coarse, Fine, Very Fine. I also have the ACE stone, which I have been using lately for practice along with the ceramic rod mounted on my bench Smith 3 in 1 kit I had mentioned at the top of this post. I have made some progress with the S30V benchmade, as it is no longer dull, after I killed the edge while I think sharpening at the wrong angle. Funny, but the last time I sharpened it to a (forearm) hair shaving level, I was using the portable Smith Pull thru and ceramic rod using the technique demonstrated above in the Youtube vid Bucketstove posted for me. After that I had to use the knife to pry and some other outdoor activities as I had nothing else and after those uses, I tried using the stone freehand just after I bought it and may have finished off the edge - so dull that I couldn't even cut my thumb with direct pressure. I know, I know, not the proper way to test, but it was noticeably duller than it had been. I realized I probably had the wrong angle on at least one side if not both.

Since then, I have been using my portable worksharp to hold the correct angle but using the ACE stone to sharpen/practice getting that muscle memory, then taking a couple of swipes on the ceramic rods. I haven't had much time to practice, but I can already see the difference. I am trying to figure out how to best use those DMT plates, for home use. Do I add water or oil? Does it matter? I took a couple of swipes, dry on one of the plates, coarse I think, but didn't want to ruin anything. Should I just use the stone & ceramic rods for now and save the DMT plates for special occasions? I figured I would wait for advice, but hadn't been able to post til now & wanted to see what y'all thought.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Use the DMTs however you want to. Just remember to keep pressure light with them; they don't need it to work well, and in fact, they'll work much, much better with a light touch. As for oil or water or dry, that's your choice as well. I initially started using mine dry, but have since started to like the feedback with a little bit of mineral oil on them. Some low-alloy stainless steels can clog a diamond hone pretty fast, especially at coarse/very coarse grits; I've liked using mineral oil to keep any of that from sticking to the hone, like it can do when used dry, and I've sometimes noticed the tendency to clog when using them with water as well. Another reason I favor oil over water is just an artifact of where I live here in the desert southwest: water evaporates much too fast on a hone to keep any rhythm going, for me. Frequently stopping to re-wet the hone gets annoying pretty fast.

If you do use mineral oil on them, they'll clean up easily with dish soap and water afterward. I highly recommend cleaning them after each use; it's easy to keep them working as new, that way.


David