Need bowdrill help

[beckerhead]

I tried a few variations this year at deer camp, and got good smoke, good dust, but no coal. I tried a cedar/cedar set, then a cedar spindle w/cottonwood board, and a willow spindle with both cottonwood and cedar board.

My question is should the spindle be the harder or softer of the woods, or the same?

My technique got pretty good, I did have trouble with the string walking up my spindle no matter how I wrapped it? But I was able to get a good sustained spin for about 1 1/2 minutes. Is that long enough, or should I try to keep it going longer?

I have wood options of cedar, willow, pine, river birch, cottonwood, and some hardwoods.

Any help is appreciated, as this is a very nagging fire making deficit for me.

 

[tonym]

A minute should be more than enough time to get a coal. If your getting good smoke and powder, you need to bring up the speed once you see you have the powder in there. Pretty much, less pressure and more speed will cook the powder into a coal.

I prefer to use similar or the same density wood for drill and hearth. White Cedar on white Cedar, cotton wood on cotton wood..
Or Yucca wood on just about anything works very easy.

 

[cddogfan1]

Spindle needs to be harder than the fireboard, if they are not the same wood.

 

[tonym]

Spindle needs to be harder than the fireboard, if they are not the same wood.

"needs to be"

Why is that?

I know how many bowdrill fires I have started, and I know what works best for me. In my experience, if the drill is harder than the hearth you wind up drilling through the hearth before you have enough time to get a coal. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this will definately happen, as I have gotten coals with a harder drill before, but I have drilled through the board more times than not with that set up. As a beginner I found it much easier to get a coal with the same wood. Now that I have more experience, I can control my pressure as I am drilling better, but I still find it easier with the same wood.


Edit: oops, I just noticed that you said "if your not using the same wood" I kind of agree, needs is a strong word.

 

[Moosez45]

I agree with Tony, same wood for spindle and drill. I make my kits from one piece of wood. Its about pressure and timing. Start slow, get your rhythm, add pressure. Once I see smoke, I start watching the notch fill. When it full of dust, ligthen up and go for broke. It takes practice, and feel. Right now I'm at about 80% success on my bow drills, my major hangups are knocking my stuff around when I get the coal, and losing it and poor tinder choice. If the woods good, you can get smoke in 10 seconds, powder for 20 more seconds, and a coal in 10 seconds after that. It really doesn't take long. Make sure your woods good, is the most important. Uncured wood will smoke like a tar pot, but render no coal. There are a bunch of bow drillers here that will chime in, pay attention, they know their stuff.

Moose

 

[beckerhead]

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I have been using dry wood of course, but didn't get the "less pressure, more speed" at the end thing. I will try it. Also, I did burn through my cottonwood board with my cedar spindle, so I know what you are saying about that.
What about string crawl? I can't seem to beat that one, maybe I am doing something wrong? I tried wrapping spindle both ways and still walks up the spindle.

 

[cddogfan1]

Harder spindles work better for me. I guess diffrent stokes for diffrent folks. Really I think you just need to find what works for you. I have always thought that if I drilled a hole through my fireboard then it was to soft. I am self tought and never had anyone show me and learned the basics from books. I thought I rembered Mors Kochanski talking about this in his Bushcraft Book so I pulled it down and found the refrence. Now I am not saying Mors is the bushcraft god but alot of people value his opinion, in the end one needs to really try it themselves and form there own opinion. But in the book in the Firecraft section titles suitable woods for bow drill (pg 19) he states "The board and the drill must be of the same hardness, or the drill must be the harder of the two, or it will wear away before it can generate the required heat" He evern goes on to say "A superiorr combination is punky aspen heartwood board and a dry weatherd wolf willow drill" I live in the middle ga so most of the time I am lucky enough to use yucca for most of my bowdrills set. I can find it really easy in most of the woods I travel. I use yucca on yucca. If you have ever uses yucca you probably already know that the center pith is fairly soft and punky campared to the outside. So on a bow drill set of yucca and yucca what happens is the hard outside of the spindle is making contact with the softer inside material of the fireboard (typically after you burn your notch you are into the pith). This has been my experience. Hope this helps. Probably should have explained myself better in my original post.

 

[cddogfan1]

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I have been using dry wood of course, but didn't get the "less pressure, more speed" at the end thing. I will try it. Also, I did burn through my cottonwood board with my cedar spindle, so I know what you are saying about that.
What about string crawl? I can't seem to beat that one, maybe I am doing something wrong? I tried wrapping spindle both ways and still walks up the spindle.

On the spin crawl. I want my spindle & loop to be to the outside. Also I hold the bow in a fassion that has the string on top of my pinkie and ring ringer and under my bird finger and ring finger. By doing this I am able to controll tension (squezze with the bird and ring finger to add tension reverse to loosen) on the string and it helps to eliminate some of the crawl

 

[tonym]

Gotcha C.D.:thumbup: , Mors sure knows a helluva allot more than me. Like you said, I just know whats works for me.

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I have been using dry wood of course, but didn't get the "less pressure, more speed" at the end thing. I will try it. Also, I did burn through my cottonwood board with my cedar spindle, so I know what you are saying about that.
What about string crawl? I can't seem to beat that one, maybe I am doing something wrong? I tried wrapping spindle both ways and still walks up the spindle.

C.D. has good info in his post on the spin crawl.

You can cheat the string crawl a little by thinning out the center of the drill (think hour glass shape.)
But what works best is to just keep your strokes and bow level to the ground. I know, easier said than done, but you'll get it with time.

 

[Moosez45]

This vid may help, pay close attention at 1:20, the real secret of bowdrilling comes to the light of day.

[Youtube]ua_XQETRfdw&feature=related[/youtube]
I know someone just recently posted this, but its good stuff. Lesson: have a solid backup.

Moose:thumbup:

 

[tonym]

This vid may help, pay close attention at 1:20, the real secret of bowdrilling comes to the light of day.



Moose:thumbup:

Man, that guy has some funky feet.:barf: I couldn't get past the first couple of seconds. Get that guys address and send him a pair of shoes...

Maybe if he made knives, he could sell them and buy his own...

 

[Moosez45]

Man, that guy has some funky feet.:barf: I couldn't get past the first couple of seconds. Get that guys address and send him a pair of shoes...

Maybe if he made knives, he could sell them and buy his own...

AboMarchand. Nuff sed.

Moose

 

[cmurphy]

Try using a cottonwood root for the hearth/fireboard. Also, horseweed grows all over the US and the thick pieces make great spindles while the thin ones are killer hand drills. A trick I use when I have to make a lot of kits for a class is I'll bake everything at 200 degrees in my oven for a 2 hours or so.

As for string walk, keep your eyes fixed on the end of the bow as opposed to the spindle. This way we learn real quick how to keep the string level, plus we pay more attention to proper form and less asking ourselves "Is that a coal yet? It must be a coal, right?"

Have fun

 

[skab8541]

You have some string slip going on as well, try playing with the tension of the string. Seems to help me. I use a 4 hole method that works pretty slick and is worth the effort.

Like this:

and the other end, just an overhand knot:

By the way, not my idea.

 

[kgd]

Good advice Tonym.....more speed less downward pressure.....That is my mantra when things are not working out. When I start drilling I first start with just enough pressure to hold the drill in place and then gradually increase pressure with a medium speed until I see smoke. As soon as I see smoke, then I try to keep that pressure constant. Then just keep drilling at that medium speed until the notch fills with dust. This could take anywhere from 20 s to 1:00 minute depending on the hardness of your wood. When the notch is full than crank up the speed (same pressure) a little bit more. I usually give it about 10-15 s at warp speed craziness and stop.

I'm another person who prefers drill and hearth of the same materials, but I when I do mix, then I prefer a harder drill than hearth. Here is my rationale. You control the downward pressure exerted so lighten up that pressure a bit more when using the harder spindle.

Second, I think that when the hearth contributes a majority of the dust, that dust is more likely to be swept into the notch. When the spindle contributes to the dust as it would if it is softer, then you have some dust that is swept to the sides of the divot and some dust that makes its way to the notch contributing to inefficiency in dust collection. I also speculate that the 'fall' distance of dust originating from the drill to the bottom of the notch is also a bit further and more subject to little wind currents making it cool faster. I have no hard evidence to support this, I am just theorizing here.

Third, when I seen a nice piece of ash (repeat it now..... NICE ASH!), I then "get me some ash" and from that generate a nice long, hard spindle That ash spindle will last me dozens and dozens of bow drill trials because it resists grinding. If I chose to hold onto my ash, I can use it with a wide variety of different types of wood because ash is very hard. Thus, with my ash spindle and a softer hearth, of which ever softer wood type I chose to make it from, I will always be able to create my ash-hole <--in the hearth.

 

[Moosez45]

Good advice Tonym.....more speed less downward pressure.....That is my mantra when things are not working out. When I start drilling I first start with just enough pressure to hold the drill in place and then gradually increase pressure with a medium speed until I see smoke. As soon as I see smoke, then I try to keep that pressure constant. Then just keep drilling at that medium speed until the notch fills with dust. This could take anywhere from 20 s to 1:00 minute depending on the hardness of your wood. When the notch is full than crank up the speed (same pressure) a little bit more. I usually give it about 10-15 s at warp speed craziness and stop.

I'm another person who prefers drill and hearth of the same materials, but I when I do mix, then I prefer a harder drill than hearth. Here is my rationale. You control the downward pressure exerted so lighten up that pressure a bit more when using the harder spindle.

Second, I think that when the hearth contributes a majority of the dust, that dust is more likely to be swept into the notch. When the spindle contributes to the dust as it would if it is softer, then you have some dust that is swept to the sides of the divot and some dust that makes its way to the notch contributing to inefficiency in dust collection. I also speculate that the 'fall' distance of dust originating from the drill to the bottom of the notch is also a bit further and more subject to little wind currents making it cool faster. I have no hard evidence to support this, I am just theorizing here.

Third, when I seen a nice piece of ash (repeat it now..... NICE ASH!), I then "get me some ash" and from that generate a nice long, hard spindle That ash spindle will last me dozens and dozens of bow drill trials because it resists grinding. If I chose to hold onto my ash, I can use it with a wide variety of different types of wood because ash is very hard. Thus, with my ash spindle and a softer hearth, of which ever softer wood type I chose to make it from, I will always be able to create my ash-hole <--in the hearth.

Ok, now that's just funny. Well kiss my ash, it must be dryed out completely before you can count on it make a coal. Ash coal.

Moose

 

[Rick Marchand]

There's nothing quite like a good piece of ash.

My feet stink from stompin mudholes all day, Tony... I saw you looking at my bum over the weekend.

... and yes... I have contributed nothing to this thread.


Rick