Need D2 expertise for advice

BlackKnight86

BlackKnight86

Say my name, cheesers!
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
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I found this quote from a well-known knifemaker, when asked what he thought of D2:

I honestly have no idea why anyone would use it as a blade steel.

I know a lot of people are using it and it is very trendy.

It is not a tough steel.

It's toughness is about the same as 440-C

It's edge holding is higher then 440C but it is an even larger Carbide Steel - I mean HUGE - and it sufferers from chipping issues in Thin Crossection and is almost impossible to sharpen for the Average user and even most skilled users.

I am totally mystified that people are so Ga-Ga over it.

I love it when people tell me that it is no problem to sharpen - they use a Diamond Hone or Diamond Sharpener.

That - of course - leaves it toothy. Large Carbide steels and toothy edges are a riot.

They go dull in minutes of work because the large carbides that are left exposed just break out of the matrix so - Back to the Diamond Hone.

A Properly Sharpened D-2 Edge that is refined and Polished will last remarkably but there are not a lot of folks out there than both know how to do it and are willing to invest the time to do it right.
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I don't have the knowledge to adjudicate this. It certainly sounds logical; but I am aware of folks who use and love D2, as well, so I'm wondering what they think. This knifemaker has a reputation for knowing his craft; so it did raise a concern for me, as there are a number of knives with D2 blades that I'd like to get.

Is this true? Or is he being extreme? If true, is it really as hard to "do it right" as he makes it sound?
 
I am afraid that your knifemaker friend has no experience with properly heat-treated D2

Check out any of the threads talking about Dozier knives.
 
Thanks, AG! I don't actually know him personally...he's a pretty prominent maker. In fact, he's a bit of a polarizing figure here - that's why I was reluctant to give his name. He's a big A2 user. But regardless of what folks say about him, he certainly seems to know his stuff about steel...that's why I got concerned.

I have a couple of D2 blades; and I love them. But I don't think I've ever pushed an EDC knife to its limit.

Are there limitations to what type of knife or knife usage for which one would use D2? I know the Kershaw folks have that big one...the Outcast. But then I've heard others say that they would not use D2 on a larger, heavy-use knife. Is it just a matter of heat treat and geometry? Or is the large carbide issue a real one? Is there a best way to sharpen/strop it? I've heard some folks say to never let it get too dull, or it'll be hard to resharpen myself.

I'll check out the Dozier threads. In fact, I've got my eye on some of his knives!

Thanks!

BK86
 
The problem I see is that he is making a broad statement.

He states that the people he has spoken to sharpen with diamonds and that they do not get a polished edge.

Diamond stones are the newest sharpening medium and are popular because they are new and because steels have become hard enough to require them.

While it is probably true that the average user of knives in general cannot sharpen D2, the vast majority of knife users aren't as particular about their edges as we are and will not dedicate the time to learn how to sharpen any knife to a polished tree-topping edge.

It all boils down to this:
If you want a knife in D2 you should be take the time to learn how to sharpen your tool.
 
When the maker started talking about large carbides and diamond stones and tear out I almost couldn't stop laughing, sounds like someone is a little bias of D2.

The only downside to D2 that I know of is it lack of latteral strength, it will snap before it bends. Though my outcast seems to shatter all these "myth's" of D2, its been put through the ringer more than once and keeps asking for more. So, when I hear D2 chips or is bad in a large blade or any other complaints I just look at my outcast and think how superman must have heat treated it with his eyes for it to have such great performance.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
This knifemaker has a reputation for knowing his craft; ......

Is this true? Or is he being extreme? If true, is it really as hard to "do it right" as he makes it sound?
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Let us all in on the maker and no doubt someone will chime in with the rest of the story. You might find an ulterior motive for the statement.
 
Ive never had a problem with my d2 knives, that being said, I only have folders in d2
 
In my experience, I do not use diamond sharpening, but wet-dry sandpaper on a mousepad. I move from 250 grit up to 1500 grit, then strop with chromium oxide on leather. My D2 edges get super polished, and super sharp, and I have never had a knife blade hold an edge better than D2.
 
Bob Dozier has been using D2 for what at least 30 years. If D2 is just a "trendy" steel it sure has been trend for a long time.

I consider myself an average, still learning, knife sharpener. I've taken a friend's Dozier who used it to the point that you could barely see the bevel and sharpened it up to Dozier sharpness with a 220 Edge Pro stone. It was probably a 15 min job which wasn't too bad considering how dull he let it get. That's what cleaning half a dozen hogs will do to ya.

Dozier's D2 is some of the best stuff I've worked with. I don't have any other D2 knives to compare his to but it seems as long as it is reputable company/maker it should come with a quality heat treat.
 
I am not all that knowledgeable about steels, but I do see differences in performance of edge holding ability. I have 2 Queen slipjoints with D2 and a Spyderco Paramilitary in D2. I really love these. I spend alot of time sharpening these, and they stay sharp even with prolonged use. I also like the color of the steel. I polish my edges, and I really do not see much difference in sharpening time from CV or 154 CM. I use DMT coarse, and Spyderco brown med, white fine and white ultra fine, and then strop. D2 is a favorite, and I did not get that way from other opinions, just my experience.
Hope that helps.
 
I think most people like the large carbide steels, they get toothy as they wear so they keep cutting aggressive. 154CM has even larger carbides than D2, yet these two steels are both very popular. D2 is a World War I era steel, so I can understand how it got the reputation of being hard to sharpen on those Arkansas stones. But today with diamond and hard ceramic stones? Definitely not hard to sharpen.
 
cotdt said:
I think most people like the large carbide steels, they get toothy as they wear so they keep cutting aggressive. 154CM has even larger carbides than D2, yet these two steels are both very popular. D2 is a World War I era steel, so I can understand how it got the reputation of being hard to sharpen on those Arkansas stones. But today with diamond and hard ceramic stones? Definitely not hard to sharpen.
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I think you hit the tool steel nail on the head. The diamond and or ceramic stones are hard enough to sharpen these.
 
There are some who at least seem opposed to large carbide steel in knives. Roman Landes and the entirety of Sandvik are a couple that come to mind.
 
My irk as regards D2 is the constant looking to of Bob Dozier as the example of how good D2 is.

The D2 of Bob Dozier is not the "average", but more of an exception IMO.
 
orthogonal1 said:
My irk as regards D2 is the constant looking to of Bob Dozier as the example of how good D2 is.

The D2 of Bob Dozier is not the "average", but more of an exception IMO.
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I don't see the problem. If you're going to pick a D2 knife to represent the steel, Dozier is it because it shows what the steel can offer. Granted, his heat treatment recipe is completely different from the industry standard, if you're going to compare steels you gotta make sure that it is heat treated well.

Spyderco does a great heat treat for CPM D2. There are a number of good D2 knives, which speaks well for D2 because there exists technically superior steels that nobody pushes the performance of. Well heat-treated D2 runs circles around knives made in these newer, better steels in my experience.
 
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I am not a maker, but a moderate to hard user. I have 7 knives in D2, and love it.
There are other quality makers that use this stuff, not just Bob Dozier.

IME, D2 isn't even that hard to sharpen, no harder than any other hard steel. Diamond sharpeners are definitely the way to go, but I have also reprofiled a bit with my Lansky with regular AlOx stones, honing oil, and a LOT of time. Slow work no doubt, but not unbearable while watching TV.

To prove to myself that bought the right knife and the right steel, I took my RAT7 in D2 and chopped through a hardwood (seasoned red oak) 2x4 right after I got it. It took about 300 chops but it got through. I then took it and dropped it point down into a large hardwood stump (same oak) about 5 times from 5' up. The knife stuck in by the point, with only about 3/8" of penetration. The point didn't chip off, break or bend. As for the edge itself, no chipping, no rolling, and the blade was still sharp after hard chopping and cutting. Certainly not as sharp as when I started, but sharper than most folks carry their large sheath knives. Needless to say, that was pleasing results.

My Queen folders are in D2. No chopping with the Barlow, but light use on a construction site for all kinds of utility work cutting fiber straps, opening heavy cardboard boxes, cutting rope, shaving wood, etc. Once I got it sharp (really sharp took some time!), it has stayed sharp. And it doesn't start to rust at the slightest hint of my acidic sweat like my old 1095 Case knives.

And the two sons I never had. A Kershaw JYD II comp, and a G10 Tyrade. The JYDII has been used extensively, and could be the hardest working, best performing work knife I have. I wouldn't put anything (reasonable, for the Noss fans) past it as far as work goes. It came sharp, holds an edge for a very long time, gets NASTY sharp, and I just touch it up with the 600 grit 12" diamond rod I have, and then a light strop. Touchup time is about 2 minutes. The D2 really shows its stuff on this knife at work, and never a falter, nor complaint on my part. No chipping, rolling, edge deformity... nothing. Just D2 goodness.

As for the Tyrade, it has yet to hit the deck, but since it is cut from the same Kershaw cloth, I expect it to perform as well as its little brother the JYDII.

I was reluctant to buy anything in D2 a year ago because just about all I ever read was bad news in this forum. I couldn't find any real data except some foreign guys that broke a blade on YouTube, but no real first hand knowledge or experience. Everyone just repeated the same things over and over, all warnings about its deficiencies. I was still interested in D2 though since there are other venues that like the stuff.

So I found a guy that told me if I didn't like the RAT7 D2 knife he sold me, as long as I didn't actually break it he would take it back and replace it with a similar knife in 1095. And that is actually the biggest reason I jumped in.

Since then I have never regretted one D2 purchase, and have been completely pleased with the D2 from three different makers.

Robert
 
A. G. Russell said:
threeman I think you are wrong. Mike is not in VA and Mike is not going to rain on someone else's parade.
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BlackKnight never said the maker he was talking about was from VA, A.G.

I thought it might be Mike Stewart due to a post of his, on a different forum, about D-2:

"D-2 is not a tough Steel.

That Tells you a lot about all of these Stainless Super Steels.

When they Brag that they are as tough as D-2 You need to have both eyes open.

I will say that our heat treat does maximize toughness on all of these steels so Combined with a convex edge we usually don't have chipping issues when we use them.

The major Difference in toughness between D-2 and the CPM154 is - as you stated above - The D-2 has huge Carbides that can break out of the edge.

The CPM154 has much finer Carbides so they don't tear out of the edge.


I hope I explained that well enough - I know it can be a bit Confusing.


Mike........... "
 
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Don't confuse D2 and CPM-D2, they are very different.
 
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