Need Help/advice on major knife decision!

Joined
Jul 31, 2002
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Well, looks like I've got a decision to make, and it will probably take some hard thought. This will be something I'll have to decide for myself, but thought I'd ask the members here for their input, as I'd hate to fail to consider some aspect of this... Well, that, and this is so unusual I thought at least some of you would get a kick out of it. Let's see if I can explain...

THE KNIFE
A friend of mine just stopped by the office, to show me an old ivory handled kukri he's got. Nope, this thread ain't about the khukri. He got to talking about a dagger he owns, which was made by Paul Meyers. The pommel is gold, made from the knob of an antique cane. The guard, and throat & tip on the sheath are 14 kt. gold. From his description, all the fittings were engraved by a now deceased engraver from California, whose name escapes me. The handle and scabbard are ivory, with masterly scrimshawed scenes all over. I can't recall the name of the scrimshander now, either, but I do recall he said she put about 400 hours of work into the scrim. She told him it's replacement value should be $17,000 for insurance purposes. He plans to drop back by tomorrow and show it to me, and perhaps I'll try to get some pictures of it.

THE PROBLEM
My friend waited EIGHTEEN YEARS for the scrimshander to finish her work. Now, he can't even look at the knife without getting angry. If someone sees it, he won't even tell them there's scrimshaw on the bottom side, because he doesn't want this lady to get any credit. He admits that she did an outstanding job when it was all said and done, but is still quite pissed that it took such a large portion of his life before getting it back. At one point, he even told her he just might show up on her doorstep with the police, to get it back.

THE MAN
My friend is perhaps a bit eccentric. He's really a great fellow, and really knows his stuff when it comes to collecting all kinds of stuff, but now and then he expresses himself in ways that may seem odd. For instance, there's the time his lawnmower (push-type mower) wouldn't start. He pulled and pulled on the starting cord, 'till he was sweated through, and the thing still wouldn't start. He was so pissed at it, but instead of smashing it like I might, he told the mower "By God! You'll mow this lawn one way or the other!" So he pushed it up and down his yard, round and round, till the whole lawn had been covered, even though the thing wasn't running.

So how does this relate to the knife, you ask? If you wrong him, he probably won't give you a second chance. Well, when the scrimshander finally sent the knife to him, she made a big deal about being carefull with the scrimshaw. She specifically wrote that he should never even touch it with his bare hands, as the oils on our skin would be "the kiss of death" to the microscopic scratches she made........

THE REQUEST
My friend is not a young man anymore, and is retiring this July. He's already thinking about what will become of his HUGE collection of stuff when he goes, and says he'd like me to have this knife, if I agree to his conditions. He wants me to carry it hunting, and maybe use it to stick a coon or wild pig or something. He said be sure to get some blood on the scrimshaw. :)
This is his little way of getting back at this lady, after he's gone. He said he'd understand if I didn't want to take him up on it, but he asked because he knew I would keep my promise, if I agreed. (and I would.) [note to any potential burglars lurking here- all of his really high dollar stuff is kept in a vault at the bank, and he keeps plenty of loaded guns within reach- and is quite willing to use them.]
edit I should clarify here that he was smiling as he said all this, and was partially just musing on the idea. He meant what he said, but it's not like he wanted me to sign a contract or something. This is in no way definitely going to happen yet. I think he's just trying to get a feel for my feelings on this first.

THE CHOICES
By the Good Lord's Grace, I hope I have plenty of years to think this over yet. When this gentleman is gone, I'm sure I'll never meet another like him, and the world will be a poorer place without his knowledge.
He has already discussed this issue with his heirs, so there would be no conflict there. I realize this next statement may bring wailing and gnashing of teeth, but I really have no problem with using this knife as he's asked me to. I wouldn't smash the thing with a hammer or seriously abuse it on purpose, but if he wants me to give it honest use, I would. Right now the biggest reason I'd turn down the offer, is just because of this thing's value. I've always felt kinda wierd accepting pricey gifts, and often turn them down. I don't want to let down my friend, and would want to do whatever made him happy. But man, what do you say to something like this? I'd honestly feel better about it if I could just pay him for it, but there just ain't no way I'll have that kind of cash laying around in the years to come. I guess if I accepted it, some small part of me would feel like I only befriended him so I could be written into his will...
If he asks me about it again tomorrow, I think I'll need some more time to think it over.

What do you guys think?
 
The answer is obvious, you should tell him you are going to use it, and after he is dead and gone, and you don't want it, get rid of it. If you want to use it, use it. There is a line in honoring someones wishes. If it is given as a gift, there should be no strings attached. If you were supposed to hold it for his son or grandson, then I would say, put it under glass etc. I've given away some nice production knives to family, and some beat the living crap out of them, some put them on a shelf, and some sell them. Thats their choice. If this guy haunts you, in your head or if you see his ghost, man, tough for him, he gave you a gift. He's obviously not wound too tight, I can understand his exasperation at the length of time the scrimshaw artist took, but 18 years? I can understand one year, even two or three, but 18 years? Something more had to have happened. IMHO, I thought this was a prank post, but heres my 2 cents. Anyway, post a pic when you get it, and I think you're question will be answered when he brings it to you.
 
Silent hunter-
No, this ain't no joke, but I agree it's a bit on the strange side. If you knew this gentleman, it wouldn't surprise you. The moment he left, I had to call my wife and relate the story to her as well. But, he is as straight as they come, and I consider him a friend. We have much in common when it comes to our tastes in old fancy things.

Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to take up his offer at all, because I'm sure he has other friends he's known much longer. If I did, I would follow his wishes, and see no problem with that. That part would not haunt me at all. Accepting the knife, and then doing something else with it, is not even an option as far as I'm concerned.

He does not have any children of his own, having never married. (I don't know the whole story there, but he has let on that in the past his girlfriend died of cancer, so I can only guess it scarred him emotionally.) He plans to give his present girlfriend's kids and his neices & nephews most of his stuff, and I'd say there's plenty to go around.

As to the length of time the scrimshander had it-
The only conclusion I can come to is that she basically decided to retire at some point during the wait, and just didn't feel like doing it, even though she kept saying she would. But I don't know both sides to that part of the story.
 
the possum said:
Silent hunter-
If you knew this gentleman, it wouldn't surprise you. But, he is as straight as they come, and I consider him a friend. We have much in common when it comes to our tastes in old fancy things.

If he does want you to have the knife and use it after he's gone, accept it and do it. To me, following that request, after he goes (sorry if that seems insensitive), is a true sign of respect for him, integrity on your part, and the depth of a memorable friendship; especially a gift of this size. Accepting it and using it may, also, answer the question about whether you befriended him to get into the will and may give you some insight into the man himself. The monetary value is practically irrevelant in comparison to the man's wishes and the memories you'll have when you face your twilight years.
 
The Possum , I too am like you as far as accepting gifts. Two jobs ago my old boss (Casino) handed me 25 - $100 bills for Christmas , this guy was Mandarin Chinese , wise sort of fellow and quite eccentric , when I turned it down twice he looked at me like he was gonna hit me and said " Todd if I (emphasize I) didnt want you (emphasize you) to have this , I wouldnt be giving it to you" , I accepted it sheepishly and learned a lesson that if someone wants to give something to you , even if it's a mansion and two hot Latina maids , you take it ! :)

Enjoy man , its sounds like one hell of a knife.
 
If he's truly your friend, accept the knife and use it in the fashion that he's requested. Don't think of it as an expensive gift -- think of it as a way of honoring his memory when he's gone (hopefully, many, many years in the future).
 
rebeltf said:
if someone wants to give something to you , even if it's a mansion and two hot Latina maids , you take it ! :)

I might sell the mansion, but I would definitely keep the maids. For a couple years anyway...
 
If he is truly your friend then take it and do as he ask's. It should be a no brainer really. I to have trouble excepting gift's but this is a bit different. It has a purpose to it. Kind of like spreading a man's ashes someplace he wanted you to as a last request. Do it and don't feel bad doing it.
Just my .02
 
Hateman said:
If he does want you to have the knife and use it after he's gone, accept it and do it. To me, following that request, after he goes (sorry if that seems insensitive), is a true sign of respect for him, integrity on your part, and the depth of a memorable friendship; especially a gift of this size...

Exactly!!

And I would just add that your friend has lots of character and appearently thinks quite allot of you!.. That, all by itself is a treasure!!!
 
Well, Thanks all for the thoughts.
Perhaps I have been looking at this the wrong way- as a gift.

I called my brother last night to get his advice, and I like his approach.
He suggested to tell my friend I'd do whatever he wanted, but whatever he decides, don't even tell me about it. This way I won't know for sure if I'm even getting it, and I won't have to think about it. I can just focus more on being a real friend without worrying whether I'm subconsciously doing it just to get the knife. Also, then if he would change his mind at some point, there would be no problem.

I suppose there is a bit more holding me back though. I feel like I haven't been a good enough friend to deserve it. I've only spoken to him a few times in the past several months; it's not like we hang out on a weekly basis. We really do understand each other when it comes to nice old weapons, art, metalwork, etc. though. Do you have some possession, that if you ever lost it, you'd be more concerned about whether the person who found it could even appreciate it? I'd hope my freind would be the one to find it. He can bring me a worn, rusted object, because he knows that I (like him) will see it for what it once was. That, and we have similar beliefs about honor, honesty, work, etc.

His eccentric side turns some people off, but it doesn't bother me at all, and it's well worth getting to know him. I wish I knew a tenth of what he does when it comes to quality and collectables. I've mentioned him here in the past,- in fact, I recently posted a thread about his "theater knives". He also collects guns, (he's lost count of how many fully engraved Colt Single actions he owns. he showed me some pictures of one of them that must've cost about a hundred grand.) pocket watches, (he loves telling me the story of how he got a Phillipe Patek (sp?). He paid $180 for it at an estate auction because no one else knew what it was. A few days later, he turned down an offer for $10,000 for it.) walking sticks, (he owns a matched pair of walking sticks that were presented to the Sultan of the Phillipines by President Taft, before he became President. One made of wood, the other is carved ivory overlaid with gold, carved, engraved, inlaid with gemstones...), Victorian Toothpicks, matchsafes, indian artifacts, and basically anthing fancy made of gold or ivory. He said he's glad he never got interested in bigger stuff like antique furniture, or he'd need a shed covering 40 acres to house it all.

Hmmm....
After typing all the above, I realize I really look up to this man, and feel a bit unworthy to accept his offer. I suppose that may be the real crux of the matter.

Meh. More to ponder...
 
the possum said:
Hmmm....
After typing all the above, I realize I really look up to this man, and feel a bit unworthy to accept his offer. I suppose that may be the real crux of the matter.
If you really look up to this man, you should know how he sees the apparent financial value of the dagger: it is drowned by so long a wait for it that now he only wants it used as a dagger, in a way that's beyond him personally. He doesn't want it simply damaged or degraded, the scrim smeared with fingerprints. He wants the dagger under all that wasted glitter used.

If he left you a race horse, would you keep it stabled all the time? He respects you enough to know you can use it the way he wishes he still could.
 
He dropped by this afternoon, and we talked for a while. I heard a few more details to some of his favorite stories, and shared a few myself.

He did bring the knife along to show me, and it is a nice piece. I took a few photos, but I forgot to ask him whether he'd mind if I shared them with others, so I'm not gonna post them just yet. I really don't mean to tease you all, but I'd rather get his blessing directly first.

Just before he left, I followed my brother's advice, and told him I'd do whatever he wanted me to do as far as this knife is concerned, but I don't want to know what he decides. So, I guess that's about the end of the decision for now. I do appreciate all the advice you guys have offered. Just hearing him talk of his own passing...
It makes me realize once again that nothing is forever, and I should try to strengthen the bonds with all my friends and family, before time passes me by.
 
the possum said:
Just hearing him talk of his own passing...

It makes me realize once again that nothing is forever, and I should try to strengthen the bonds with all my friends and family, before time passes me by.

You are becoming a very wise man!

Many Blessings,
Anthony
 
He gave me the OK on the photos. So, here's a couple.

Overview:
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You really need a magnifier to appreciate the scrim on the reverse side; it only gets better under magnification.
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One of the blade:

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Look how thick that tang is. It's a sticker all the way.

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