Need Help - How to save a knife with scales that separated

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Lehbauer

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Feb 16, 2022
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Okay, need some help. 5" blade with a tapered spine in which I obviously didnt get a good bond between the scales and tang in front of the pin. Both sides have separated with the one on the left being less than 1/32" from the tang. (liners are 1/32" for reference) Is there a way to fix this? I don't mind if it is a way to just fill in the gap as this one is for my own personal use. The CA glue I have is a little thicker and I don't think I can get it to fill in effectively. Thinking back I really should have put a hole through the tang in front of the pin, and done a better job of keeping the tang flat instead of tapering back that far. Just thinking it would be a real shame to destroy handles to go at it again. Is a hybrid ash burls and aluminite set with white liners that looked killer till I noticed the gaps.

IMG_1369.JPG
 
Lehbauer said:
Okay, need some help. 5" blade with a tapered spine in which I obviously didnt get a good bond between the scales and tang in front of the pin. Both sides have separated with the one on the left being less than 1/32" from the tang. (liners are 1/32" for reference) Is there a way to fix this? I don't mind if it is a way to just fill in the gap as this one is for my own personal use. The CA glue I have is a little thicker and I don't think I can get it to fill in effectively. Thinking back I really should have put a hole through the tang in front of the pin, and done a better job of keeping the tang flat instead of tapering back that far. Just thinking it would be a real shame to destroy handles to go at it again. Is a hybrid ash burls and aluminite set with white liners that looked killer till I noticed the gaps.

View attachment 2073809
Click to expand...
How you drill holes in wood for pins ? It is tapered tang , right ?
 
Can you show pictures from the side too, to get a better understanding?
Thanks.

*the taper part Is confusing...... because tapers are still flat.
just Angled
 
Lehbauer said:
Okay, need some help. 5" blade with a tapered spine in which I obviously didnt get a good bond between the scales and tang in front of the pin. Both sides have separated with the one on the left being less than 1/32" from the tang. (liners are 1/32" for reference) Is there a way to fix this? I don't mind if it is a way to just fill in the gap as this one is for my own personal use. The CA glue I have is a little thicker and I don't think I can get it to fill in effectively. Thinking back I really should have put a hole through the tang in front of the pin, and done a better job of keeping the tang flat instead of tapering back that far. Just thinking it would be a real shame to destroy handles to go at it again. Is a hybrid ash burls and aluminite set with white liners that looked killer till I noticed the gaps.

View attachment 2073809
Click to expand...
Use tape on spine side , mix some epoxy with color of your choice /white in your case / and fill gap .

CuY5uY9.jpg
 
Will upload photos tonight of the side. Here is a photo I took prior to the glue up. Its the smaller one. Pins are through the first and last hole on the tang. Actual pins are 1/8" steel, holes in tang are 5/16". Tried to make sure the tang holes were completely filled before clamping.
IMG_1334.JPG
For the taper part the tang is fairly flat and the taper to the tip starts on the tang roughly at the hole where the pin is located. I'm thinking it might have happened is I clamped in front of the pin which squeezed out too much amd on removing the clamps, the scales beign flat then pulled away as the steel was sanded to 600 in the area. if that makes sense?
Click to expand...
 
Lehbauer said:
Will upload photos tonight of the side. Here is a photo I took prior to the glue up. Its the smaller one. Pins are through the first and last hole on the tang. Actual pins are 1/8" steel, holes in tang are 5/16". Tried to make sure the tang holes were completely filled before clamping.
View attachment 2073988
Click to expand...
Really like those shapes....Both of them.

Me personally, I like fasteners with some clamping force possibility.
Did you clamp the scales during glue-up the whole time?

If you put it in boiling water, that will often break the bond of epoxy.
You might be then be able to push out the pins.
Sand them up again, and refasten them with the same scales. Perhaps with Corby or threaded rods/loveless
 
Was clamped overnight. At the pins it’s still tight. Just might have over clamped and squeezed all the poxy out in front.
Here’s a side picture and looking from the top.
86274101-289B-42D5-8AA7-BA22780D62EE.jpeg B3F1C9E6-9D2E-4262-B52D-AFADDBEE62E2.jpeg
 
do I have this straight; 1/8" pins through 5/16" holes?
 
That's tough buddy, been there. Looks like you didn't quite get it flat across the tang/scale junction, which requires the scales to bend to fit the steel. Fillers always look like fillers, but if that's okay with you, you can fill it with epoxy. Looks like to get it right, you have to remove the scales and and get the tang flat across the entire area that the scales will attach to. Truly hope I'm wrong, but I've made that exact mistake.....and it looked exactly like that. Looks like a great start to a great knife. Good luck with it.
 
*Tang isn't flat
*Pins instead of fasteners
*Holes too big for hardware
*Clamped too tight squeezing epoxy.
*Wood movement
*Heat from shaping could weaken epoxy too


Could be any/all of these?
 
Thanks Guys. Hard lesson in getting the tang flat across the full section. Will be Seeing how to squeeze in some epoxy to fill and hopefully keep it.
Just on the comment of 5/16 holes for 1/8" pins was the original plan was for 1/4" pins, but then thought they looked too big for the height of the handle so dropped down to the 1/8" pins. At the pins it's still tight, no issues with that. Really just tang angles down at the front, and the scales wanted to stay flat.
 
I'm curious about your decision to drill oversized holes- what's the rationale?
 
Easy to fix, just a pain.

Drill out the pins, remove the scales. Flatten the tang, re-apply the epoxy and pins.

Clip the pins close, put on a couple layers of painters tape, use needle files and sand paper to finish.

See? Easy!

Lol!
Good luck man, that sucks, but it's not the end of the world, or the knife.
Take the time, fix it right and have a superior product.
 
You identified two problem areas. You stated that that the taper started at the pin hole. That means you've got at least an inch of scale ahead of that pin that you are forcing around the curvature of the taper area. And you finished that area to 600 grit. At that finish level the Expoxy has nothing to grab too. Combine the finish level and forcing the scale to bend around your taper point is a recipe for a redo.
Take A. McPhersons advice.
Reason being, you showed a couple knives with what appears to be your makers mark. You don't want shortcuts like fixing huge problems like scale separation with CA associated with your mark. Even personal knives get seen and reflect on you
 
Lorien said:
I'm curious about your decision to drill oversized holes- what's the rationale?
Click to expand...
Original plan was for 1/4" pins, but then didnt like the size given the front being such a small handle. Drill in steel was 1/16" over just for ease of installation and give a slight wiggle room.

That's also a good point A.McPherson and Velegski. If i fill it I'm sure even if no one else notices, I'm going to see it every time I use the knife. Better to remove them, flatten the tang, then reapply. Going to be a pain in the ass to drill an 1/8" pin, but I do have big holes I can always drop the 1/4" pins in it. Hmm, maybe I'll get a mosaic pin so it doesn't look like a big hunk of metal on the side.
 
If it is within the design parameters you could shorten the scales (after you remove them) to where they are just barely in front of the pins where the pivot begins. And then re- apply them with minimal run out.
 
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