Need help on meat cleaver?

Will52100

Will52100

Joined
Dec 4, 2001
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A customer requested a cleaver for cutting meat. That's all the info I've got to work with. It'll be used for BBQ cutting meat.

I'm thinking of 3/16th thick about 6" blade full flat grind with convex edge, Loveless style handle with brass or stainless thin bolsters. Not sure yet wether to use stainless or carbon steel, haven't pened him down yet. I'd personaly prefere stainless for a kitchen knife, probably ATS-34, or maybe CPM 154 cm.

Never made a cleaver before, any ideas, opions?

Thanks
 
a full flat grind is a good choice. if you make some holes or slots every 1/4" to keep foods from sticking to the blade and go with the convex grind it would make a good cleaver. i'm going to make one out of some 1075 since i cant heat treat stainless. either the ats-34 or the 154cm will be a good choice if you can do the ht. i have knives made with both ats-34 and 154cm. i have some neoprene that would make a good non slip handle and i can send you some if you want to give it a try.
 
Chinese type or European type ? To cut meat or to cut bone ? To separate pork ribs you don't need much ,1/8" x 6"x3" blade. To cut beef bones you need a good bit larger and heavier.
 
Western style butcher’s cleavers are also called meat axes. You need lots of mass and a wedge edge suitable for chopping. I won’t buy one that’s less than ¼” thick at the spine. Depending on the size and shape, you might want to use thicker stock.
 
Here's a pic of one of the four that I made. Three were sold to chefs and this one is mine.
cleaver.jpg


I used 1/4"x4" O1 with a 2" flat grind and convex edge. Edge quenched about 2". The handle is black micarter. Hope this helps.

Mike
 
I use black canvas Micarta for the handles and stainless Corby rivets.
I prefer CPM154 for stainless, or 1095 in carbon steel.
BTW, ATS-34 and 154CM are the same thing - just different manufacturers.CPM154 is different.
Blade should be like mete said, lighter for meat cutting (my friend with the BBQ business uses one with an 1/8 blade for separating the ribs), heavier for cleaving bone. A slight rocker in the blade edge is desired.
Stacy
 
If he wants it for BBQ it is probably for chopping meat. I've made quite a few for the pork cookers in my area and I usually go with a blade 1/8" thick, about 7" long and 3" wide. You don't really want to flat grind the blade, just leave it full thickenss to within 1/2" of the edge and give it a convex edge from there. I normally make mine from A2.

Jim
 
I was going to say almost exactly what Jim said-

for cooking, not butchering, I'd go with a longer blade- 7 to 8 inches, about a 2.5 to 3.5 inch depth, and a full thick blade 1/8 to 3/16 with a convex grind that runs 3/8 to 1 inch up.

Got one, working on more. Total BITCH to edge quench well.
 
NON SLIP GRIP
i cut ribs with one of my kitchen knives at a fair this year and man did the grip get slick after a few hours
but looks like all is covered maybe a convex grind tho
 
Thanks, I'm drawing up the pattern tonight, I'll post in a day or so, see what ya'll think.

Now he tells me maybe cutting a few bones, but no chopping.
 
I'd go L6 or S7 carbon tool steels, or if it must be stainless go with Stellite 6k! since it will be used to chop with and as far as handles go how about something different, and something usefull like a Kabar type handle but made out of rubber.
 
Here's a couple rough sketches of what I've got in mind. The dimension are not set, but it'll give him some idea of what I've got in mind and where to go from there. I like the first one with about a 6" blade, by about 2 1/2" wide.
 

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Almost forgot, if I make it from carbon steel, I'll probably forge it from 52100. Not sure on the stainless end, I like the performance of ATS-34, if CPM 154 is a powdered metal version of it it should have an increase in toughness and edge holding.
 
I like the first (left) one, but I'd drop the trailing edge down to 90 degrees over the last half inch of width so you don't run into stabbing and bevel issues.
 
That's a posibility, don't know yet. The edge on both are rolled for slicing and use on a cutting board, the first more than the second. I'm sending the pics and will call and talk to him tomorrow.
 
Will, here's a nice page of commercial cleavers. http://www.chefdepot.net/cleavers.htm

Two things stand out. First, they keep a squared shape to keep mass forward on the blade for force when chopping. Second, most of them have a slight curve to the edge with the deepest part of the curve being in the center and relatively symmetrical to both ends.

The Chinese "cleavers" are somewhat mis-named, as it is usually the main knife for all tasks for a Chinese chef. Watching the cooking shows, the chefs often use that one knife for everything from chopping meat to vegetables.

The one I have has is flat 1/8" stock with a chisel single-bevel about 1' wide. Cuts well.
 
Out of curiosity, why convex grind? Is that for edge strength, or is it more for the geometry of chopping vs. slicing?

I'm toying with the idea of making a cleaver for a family member as a Christmas present, and kind of assumed I'd give it the usual slight hollow grind.

Doc.
 
japan woodworker is a decent site for looking at the japanese style, and a few of the chinese style.

I like a hybrid approach, I'm not particularly religiously centered on keeping anything pure and holy just cuz it's from japan. I tend to appreciate a *slightly* narrower blade and less weight at the tip, sometimes with a flat front and sometimes with a slight bull nose. And I do use them for everything- much more our meat slicers and veggie choppers than big old butcher jointing cleavers.

The convex grind (and I'm not a huge expert on this, but this is what I know from kitchen work and my limited knife making time) gives you a stronger "fine" edge than you'd get otherwise. You get a lot of the cutting ability of a narrower bevel with the edge strength of an axe. :) It's also a smooth way to get to the spine width that won't bind on what you are cutting. That's the thing that would worry me most about a hollow grind on a kitchen knife.
 
Will,You know enough about how a ruff duty knife should work...I would just trust my insticts if I was you...

Good Luck,
Bruce
 
Sorry for asking a weird question, but is there an ideal relationship between the axis of the handle and the (for lack of better term) largest chord of the cutting edge? I notice Chinese cleavers make them parallel whereas the lines intersect in front of the knife's "tip" in some Western-style cleavers. I also see that on other chopping devices like axes and hatchets that the two lines are usually crossing near the grip or behind it.

I like both designs, by the way, but I especially like the second.
 
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