Need HELP on Spyderco Profiler Set...

[Dannyc]

I'm currently using my profiler to do freehand sharpening. It's been with me for months now, and I noticed that the flat side is starting to become very smooth, both on the medium and fine hones.

Tonight, I tried sharpening a knife using the other side, the one with the groove in-between, using its partial flat sides. My knife went from so-so sharp, to scary sharp in just a few passes!

What can I do to restore the medium or fine hone's cutting power on steel? The unused side of the hone is rougher, and cuts better than the used one, which is smooth now.

I experimented by running the fine DMT hone on the medium ceramic hone of Spyderco, hoping it would roughen it up a bit, but instead, all it did was make an unremovable mark on the stone... double ARGHH....

Need help here..

Dan (having problems w/ my 1,001th post)

PS. I'm just running my finger on both hones, and as far as I can tell, both have the same smoothness. They are cleaned regularly using an "eraser" which I believe is made by United Cutlery??

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dan - try scrubbing them with some cleanser like Comet or Ajax and a nylon or Brillo type pad. I have found that the erasers are OK "in a pinch", but they leave a coating of silicon on the stones which may be building up and "lubricating" the surface. Let me know the results.

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Hi Sal!

Thanks for responding..

I'll try that one out asap, and let you know..

Hmmm.. I never thought of the eraser leaving a coat of silicone on the stones, but that seems to be what's happening.. Thanks for the great insight, Sal.. Really appreciate it!

Dan

 

[Dannyc]

Sal, just tested your recommendation, and I'm happy to say that it's working as it should once again.

Though it's still pretty smooth, I guess I just need to scrub it a bit longer, to obtain greater effect.

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.

Dan

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dan - additional info to share;

When I converted some of my stones to ultra fines, I used a DMT diamond hone to resurface them. It wore out the DMT stone, but I ended up with an ultra fine surface on the ceramic. You may have removed some of the grit with the DMT stone.

Additional info; When the outer surface of the gray stone finaly "cracks" (wears off), the cutting action is proved 3 - 5 fold. The gray stone will ultimately wear out if used enough, but cutting action is surprizing. You could probably come close by rubbing the white stone against the surface of the gray stone. (The white is slightly harder). This may also "grit down" the white stone.

I was thinking of making the "ProFile" set in a diamond, about 400 - 600 mesh. Think there would be any interest?

Maybe a portable, about 5" long?

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Hello Sal!

Yes, I think that's what I did. I was just about to post that I think I ruined part of the medium stone when I used my DMT to try and roughen the surface up a bit. But it turned out that it made the surface very smooth instead of rough.

The gray stone has an outer and inner layer? I thought it was consistent all the way to the insides.

That was my original plan, to try and get a bit deeper into the surface, hoping to get more cutting power from the stone. That was why I tried to rub my DMT on the surface.

I was thinking about using the white on the gray, but was afraid it might ruin the white stone as well.

Question: When you say "grit down", that means the white stones won't be 1200 grit anymore, but slightly lower, say 1000 grit?

I use my Profiler set more often than my DMTs, coz it gives me a keener edge, and gives me better control during sharpening. I tried doing that with the stones from my Sharpmaker, but the feel isn't "right".

There's something special in the shape of the Profiler.

I was thinking of making the "ProFile" set in a diamond, about 400 - 600 mesh. Think there would be any interest? Maybe a portable, about 5" long?

Hey, that's something new..

I like it.

Cutting power of diamond, plus the slim profile of the Profiler set. I don't think there's anybody out there yet who came up with a slim diamond hone yet. There could be a market for these, but I would suggest that you first try to come out with the diamond sleeve for the Sharpmaker 204 first, since I believe there would be more interest in those. The profiler set is something like a specialty item, for those who takes their time to sit down and do detailed sharpening like what I do, due to its slim profile.

As to the portable, you mean something like the DoubbleStuff? (I have those, too, hehe). Yep, that would be great, too. Though it would look like the ones DMT has. But I think if you do that, you'll give the others a run for their money, specially since we all know your company when it comes to quality. Guess which one they'll be buying if ever?

Thanks for the great insights, Sal! I really appreciate you taking time out on this one.

Dan

 

[David Rock]

Sal:

I would very much like to purchase a Pro-File rod with diamonds. To whom do I make the check payable?

The coarser the better. I would use it for re-profiling inward curved edges, such as the 710 Axis Lock. Speaking of which, I recently bought a 710 and it took me more than three hours to thin out the recurved portion of the edge to my satisfaction, using the gray sharpmaker rods at the 30 degree angle. The rest of the edge went pretty fast on the extra-coarse DMT.

I'd like to see it in the same length as the regular Pro-File, and perhaps a short one that's a bit narrower, to fit alongside my SwissTool in a Benchmade AFO belt pouch. Yeah, I know: I'm probably the only guy in the world who needs one of the latter.

Thanks for asking us what we want. We want diamond rods thicker than the skinny DMT tapered shank, which wears out rather quickly, since there is hardly any surface area to spread the rubbing over.

David Rock

------------------
AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

 

[Dannyc]

Oh yeah, did thought about it, but forgot to write it down a while ago.

Yep, David's right. If you're going to make a Profiler set w/ Diamonds, make it a coarse one, coz after all, it's going to be for re-profiling the bevel, not just sharpening.

Dan

 

[Sal Glesser]

thanx for the input.

Dan - by "Gritting it down", I mean make it finer which means a higher number. eg; maybe it is currently the equivalent of 1200 grit and you would "grit it down" to 1400.

Grit is measured by the size of the abrasive substance (silica, sand, diamond, etc) sifted through a screen. The smaller the screen, the higher the number. I believe it relates to spaces per measurement.

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Got it, Sal..

Thanks for the great info!

Err... so... yikes! So I made a mess on part of my medium stone. Can I ever grit it back up?

On second thought, don't worry. I think I'll just leave it as is.

Dan

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dan - You rreally cant "grit is back up", but you can "crack the surface" and it will be a coarser grit below the surface.

sal

 

[Dennis Wright]

Sal. Absolutely, bring out something in diamond. I still have many inquiries about the diamond sleeves for the Sharpmaker. Also, I agree with the others. Don't bother with the fine or extra fine grits. Use 400 0r even 320 as the real purpose of the diamond hone is to remove significant amounts of blade material rather quickly.

Finishing and final honing is always done better with the medium and then fine ceramics, but in the sharpening world "Diamonds are forever".

Merry Christmas.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a knife...confuse a liberal)
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com

 

[Dannyc]

Hmmm.. okay, "cracking the surface"... Does this mean rubbing two medium grit stones on each other?

Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm new at this... hehehehe.. I think..

Thanks for putting up with me, Sal!

Dan

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Just a note concerning DMT hones, I asked about using them on ceramics before. They are supposed to be able to do this with no problems and the warrenty covers it. I have sharpened ceramic blades with no problem, never reprofiled a ceramic hone though. If they do wear out I would contact DMT for a replacement.

-Cliff

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dan - You can rub the two medium grits together, or use the DMT (although I believe it will in fact ruin the DMT stone).

You might also consider that the radius cuts faster than the flats and sharpening a plain edge blade on the large radius (or a serrated blade on the small radius) is surprizingly quick.

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Hi Sal,

I'll try rubbing the Doublestuff's medium stone on the Profiler, and see what happens.

Err.. I don't think I will want to try using the DMT on the ceramic stone again. The last time I did that, I ended up with an ultra-fine stone... hehehe..

Yep, the radius should cut faster, but I tried it once, and ended up with a rounded bevel (hard to maintain a constant angle using freehand sharpening).

Sal, what DMT stone grit did you use on your ceramic stones? and which ceramic stone? medium or fine? (the one that turned to ultra-fine)

Cliff, yep I believe it works on ceramic stones. I'm looking at my partially ruined medium stone right now... hehehe..

The DMT stone looks a bit eaten up as well.

Dan

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dan - I used a 300 mesh stone (red) on half of a fine grit split lengthwise (1" x 8"). I gritted it down primarily to maintain a straight razor I was shaving with at the time.

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Hmmm.. Sal, I thought the red ones are 600-mesh? I could be wrong, but isn't that DMT's medium hone?

Shaving razor.. I thought nobody uses those these days.

lol...

Dan

 

[Sal Glesser]

Dennis - We found that too coarse can be a problem. If the diamond is too large, we found that it is more easily dislodged from the plating medium when using very abrasive resistant steels. We also noticed that the very coarse "rocks" often gouge the edge and create deep fuurows rather than actually remove the metal. I believe there is an optimum but we've not decided yet what that would be for the steels that we are using.

Dan - I had to go out to the shop and dig it out to check. It was the blue DMT stone. it doesn't say what grit. I thought is was their coarse. Sorry for the confusion.

I began shaving with a straight razor at the 1983 Dubois Wyoming "Hammer In" (the first ABS event).

I felt tht a person in my occupation should know how to do that. I couldn't find any teachers so I learned sharpening with a pile of stones and a microscope and I learned the "strokes" the hard way.

I remember a Canadian custom maker at the "Hammer In" said that I "looked like I'd been trying to shove hot butter up a wildcat's a$$ with a hot ice pick"

sal

 

[Dannyc]

Dennis - We found that too coarse can be a problem. If the diamond is too large, we found that it is more easily dislodged from the plating medium when using very abrasive resistant steels. We also noticed that the very coarse "rocks" often gouge the edge and create deep fuurows rather than actually remove the metal. I believe there is an optimum but we've not decided yet what that would be for the steels that we are using.

You're right, Sal. Too coarse, and it will just create deep furrows instead of removing metal.
As to the optimum, I believe the one you mentioned before, 300-mesh? That's something in-between DMT's 220 blue, and the 600 red. Not sure about DMT's grit as well, but that's about close enough.

Dan - I had to go out to the shop and dig it out to check. It was the blue DMT stone. it doesn't say what grit. I thought is was their coarse. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem, Sal.

The blue is their Coarse stone. It's around 220 grit. It feels like the red one, though just a tad bit coarser.

I began shaving with a straight razor at the 1983 Dubois Wyoming "Hammer In" (the first ABS event).

I felt tht a person in my occupation should know how to do that. I couldn't find any teachers so I learned sharpening with a pile of stones and a microscope and I learned the "strokes" the hard way.

I believe that's the best way to learn, by trial and error.

I remember a Canadian custom maker at the "Hammer In" said that I "looked like I'd been trying to shove hot butter up a wildcat's a$$ with a hot ice pick"

sal

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

ROTFL!!
Scratches all over the face, huh?

Nothing beats trial and error when it comes to the learning process.

I just hope you don't follow Juranitch's axe-shaving feat!

Dan

PS. I just thought that since the stones of the Tri-Angle Sharpmaker have three sides, maybe think of a way to create a plastic base in-between, with a ceramic stone on one side, a diamond coarse stone on the second, and an ultra-fine on the third for finishing.

But that's another story.

[This message has been edited by Dannyc (edited 24 December 1999).]