Need help picking a steel

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NorthernHunts

Joined
Nov 7, 2020
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3
Hello everyone,


I am in need of help picking a steel for a knife I want to get commissioned. I have been researching and reading various internet forums for the past eight months and have come to realize, the more I learn the less I really know, about knives, steels, heat treating, carbide structure and so forth. So I have created an account here in hopes that some of you who have forgotten more than I know will weigh in.

The knife I want made is essentially to the same dimensions as the Grohmann #1, I love the knife but the steel they use is called C70 and I find it lacking. I am a hunter, and have found that knife shape to be perfect for field dressing and skinning game. I mainly hunt moose, elk, deer, and bear. Dirty moose hide tends to be very hard on blades so I am looking for a steel that will hold an edge extremely well, wont chip when I’m cutting around bones and joints but is also somewhat easy to sharpen (within reason). I own a sharpmaker for sharpening and can order the diamond stones if necessary. Though I will mention, unlike some I do not find much joy in the act of sharpening so something that comes back to very sharp edge in a reasonable amount of time appeals to me.

I would also like to add that I am in favor of sacrificing some corrosion resistance for physical performance as the idea of forming an interesting patina over the course this knifes life greatly appeals to me. I would also be interested in your various opinions regarding blade width, grind type, and anything else I may have not even thought of.

There are many people on this forum whose knowledge regarding knives and steel is incredible and I look forward to hearing from anyone who wants to chime in.

Thanks in advance
 
Choice of steel is not enough, the heat treating and well execution of the grind is as equally or more important. I would suggest you to decide on who you should commission the knife to and then discuss these choices with him/her.

From what you describe it sounds like you would like a carbon steel (patina, easy sharpening) with good edge holding and good toughness.

8670 and 80crv2 come to mind. If you would like semi stainless there is 3v, a2 and stainless AEBL, 14c28n and many more...
 
So I know very little about skinning knives, so I'm no help in terms of the grind, but some steels that come to mind are CruWear, 4v/ Vanadis 4E, and 10V. They're going to be a bit more difficult to sharpen, but 10V holds an edge for a very long time, and has a fair amount of toughness. CruWear has a higher toughness but reduced edge retention. It's very balanced. 4V is very similar to CruWear. According to people on the Spyderco forum, CruWear is very easy to sharpen.
These are all tool steels, so they'll patina, and CruWear has the best corrosion resistance of the bunch.
 
Thanks for the replies, yep these are all things I plan on discussing with whomever I end up choosing to commission the blade. That being said, I'm hoping to get a few opinions before I search out a bladesmith. From what I read most bladesmiths tend to work with only a few steels? If I was to just pick a blade smith and then ask them I assume I would likely get recommended the steel they are most comfortable working with. I could be completely wrong about that though. I figured if I could get a few expert opinions regarding steel, grind, blade width, edge geometry, it may help me in choosing who would be best for the job. Thanks again
 
Hey there NorthernHunts,

If you use the custom search engine in the stickies above, there is a thread all about the importance of geometry as it relates to edge retention.

I think there are articles about the same on knifesteelnerds.com by Dr. Larrin Thomas, our resident metallurgist. @Larrin

My understanding is that geometry is nearly the most important thing in knife making, surpassed only by heat treating.

Steel choice is of lesser concern until the maker is nailing the other two...

If they are trying to sell you a thick knife they are doing it wrong.
 
I've not tested any of the super high wear steels.

I've used quite a few stainless and more simple steels.

(XC90), 1095, 1084 (etc), 52100, 5160,

A2, L6,

D2, ATS34, CPM154, AUS8A, vg10 and vg1, Aebl, Sandvik 12C27 modified, 4116 krupp,

INFI, SR101 (52100 with proprietary heat treat by Busse)

CPM3V is one of my current favorites. But just is not the highest edge retention amongst super steels, but it is very tough, good edge retention.
 
I would beef up the handle, the Grohman's has a very skinny waist. Skinning is a tireing task, and those ergos just don't look convincing especially for big game. For blade stock I wouldnt go much above 0.1".
 
As you see from the replies the are many steel choices. However, most will perform about the same for your tasks. Edge retention is probably the biggest attribute you need. I would suggest you go with 19C27.
52100 would also be fine, as would O-1, but for toughness, edge retention in abrasive use like dressing game, 19C27 has everything you will need.

Here is a Sandvik blurb about 19C27:
Sandvik 19C27 is Sandvik's most wear resistant knife steel grade and developed for abrasive applications. Sandvik 19C27 is the odd grade in the Sandvik knife steel portfolio because it's a coarse carbide grade, unlike the other Sandvik knife steel grades.

If you wanted a fine carbide steel for maximum hardness and reasonable edge retention, try 13C26:
13C26 knife steel is developed for razor blade applications which means a strong focus on hardness, sharpness and edge stability. Call us Email us Sandvik 13C26 is the Sandvik knife steel grade with the highest achievable hardness while still maintaining the fine carbide structure which is characteristic for Sandvik's knife steels.
 
For moose, z-wear or cru-wear is a really good choice. V4e performs almost identically. M4 is a little more wear resistance. Those three steels are basically the center of toughness/wear resistance. I use z-wear a lot now. My favorite steel.
 
Scaniaman said:
I would beef up the handle, the Grohman's has a very skinny waist. Skinning is a tireing task, and those ergos just don't look convincing especially for big game. For blade stock I wouldnt go much above 0.1".
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how nice they feel in hand, index finger sits on the spine in the indent for skinning, and because the tip. Is trailing you can use them effectively in a tip down hammer grip as well.

Ive found that even with very abrasion resistant steels, cutting through muddy/dirty hide will dull things very quickly. I keep a havalon knife for the initial skinning cuts around the hocks etc, then the bulk of the work done with the nice knife. I've found this to mean my main knife goes a long way before needing a touch up, even being simple carbon steel. Also has the added benifit of being a spare knife should you misplace your belt knife.
 
For a patina-capable steel with aggressive cutting capability and reasonable edge wear, plus not TOO hard to sharpen: A2. Heat treat it to 60-61.

I've heard lots of worry about chipping out edges around bone, but I've boned out a couple deer, including detailing the joints and never observed an issue. Maybe some people wedge the edge in and torque it? (Recently) live bone doesn't seem that hard to me, but my experience is limited.

There's no reason for sharpening to take a long time even without power tools, unless the edge is deeply chipped out. A little more pressure gets you there faster.
 
Local guys here can do 1 to 2 moose with well heat treated simple steels, and 4-5 with steels like z-wear/v4e/M4, between sharpening. A lot of Canadian hunters like steel with nickel in it, like 15n20, as it retains toughness in the cold. I have been offering z-tuff lately, and the guys who have them love them.
 
Willie71 said:
Local guys here can do 1 to 2 moose with well heat treated simple steels, and 4-5 with steels like z-wear/v4e/M4, between sharpening. A lot of Canadian hunters like steel with nickel in it, like 15n20, as it retains toughness in the cold. I have been offering z-tuff lately, and the guys who have them love them.
Click to expand...
After doing some reading, those steels in the cruwear/M4 range are starting to sounds quite interesting. Willie it sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with knives used mainly for dealing with moose and the like. What do you find is best in terms of blade thickness and grind type?
 
NorthernHunts said:
After doing some reading, those steels in the cruwear/M4 range are starting to sounds quite interesting. Willie it sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with knives used mainly for dealing with moose and the like. What do you find is best in terms of blade thickness and grind type?
Click to expand...

I use 0.080” to 0.100” thickness. 3.5-4” blade. Full flat grind, and take the edge to 0.005” before sharpening. 10 dps. The guys using z-wear love it. M4 and V4e perform quite similarly. I just have more experience with z-wear, and have my heat treat dialed. 1975f for 30 min, plate quench, cryo for 1h, and 350f temper, 2hx2. This brings you to Rc63/64. These knives feel very light in hand, and people were skeptical, but once used, they won’t use anything else.

I used to suggest 52100 or W2 for these guys, but I can’t get anywhere near the edge retention of z-wear with them. They are great knives, but just won’t hold their edge as well. Fine edge stability is crazy good with z-wear, and at Rc63/64, it is tougher than O1 or 1095 at Rc59.

I don’t hunt myself, so I am going by what people using my knives tell me.
 
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