Need Help Sharpening My LG Seb!

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Oct 7, 2009
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Howdy fellow Seb owners!
I have a Large Sebenza 21 with s30v that I want to get back to popping hairs! [or at least slice paper cleanly]

My sharpening set up is a Spyderco Sharpmaker with medium, fine, and ultra fine rods set up for 40* like suggested. Couple strops [without any kinds of compound or sprays]

For my life I can not get my Sebenza to even cut paper "cleanly". Talking with absence of small tears along the cut. I believe the edge has a few rolls or chips that aren't quite visible to the naked eye.

After trying to sharpen the Sebenza on the series of rods in order I cannot seem to get the edge, from tip to bottom, consistently sharp? I proceeded to do the same process with my Spyderco Tenacious [8cr13mov] which resulted with a hair popping edge that makes smooth clean cuts through paper.

Is my handicap the fact that s30v is much harder to sharpen then that of much softer steel such as 8cr13mov? I do realize that Spydies come from factory with roughly a 30* edge making for a better slicer, but I did touch up the Tenacious with the 40* setting. :confused:

What processes do you all take with your Sharpmakers? Keeping in mind that my Seb is fairly dull and will not cleanly cut paper.

ANY help would be great! :thumbup:
Please provide advice that uses my materials.
I do not have money for other set ups :o

Thank You!
 
I can't speak towards the Sharpmaker or the Sebenza, but I've spent hours on my stones trying to get a roll out of S30V and it's incredibly hard for me to sharpen as well. I feel comfortable now, but I've been trying to learn how to sharpen better every moment I get. One thing that always helps me is marker on the blade to know where I'm taking off metal, as well as making sure I'm using even strokes. It's not about raising a burr, a burr will happen as the blade approaches that level of sharpness, it's just about even removal of metal along the same consistent edge.

Maybe try DMT stones, but you'll get there eventually.
 
the two sebenzas that I have, have slight convex edges, are you getting the edge or are you just hitting the shoulder? as Somber mentioned, try the sharpie trick.
 
I use a lanky turn box kit with medium and fine rods and then strop on leather without compound and get a mirror edge. this is what I do, I first take the edge bevel way down, under 15* per side with an old silicone benchstone my father used. Then put a twenty degree micro bevel on the knife and strop till mirror finish.

Take some time and reprofile the edge to 15* only on the flat parts of the sharpmaker rods. The edges can cause some chipping I have heard on harder knives. Keep at it and use the sharpie trick. Then after you are sure you have reprofiled the edge go to 20*. Now dont place a lot of pressure on the knife and stone and just keep going. When you get to the ultra fine stones you should not place a lot of pressure on the knife and just let the knife weight do all the work go for that at about 20 strokes.

Anyway, hope something helps. I am not an expert sharpener but I hope I gave some good advice.
 
I used your exact set up and got mine to smoke hairs off my arm at 40*...i would use the medium rods until it will cut paper clean, once its done that, move up, and you can see if it will slice magazine paper and then move up to the uf rods...after that i would suggest you finish on 1 micron diamond spray...this really makes a big difference in my edges...i know for a fact that what you have should work, cause ive brought my seb from barely shaving to hair poping in not that much time with the sharpmaker...but you need to get the compound for the strops...
 
Greetings ZippoThisKnifeThat: You may wish to read post #14 of this thread. It relates to sharpening a Sebenza by addressing both it's slightly convex edge (as Jiggyfly16 pointed out) and the fact that the blade THICKENS as you near the tip. It helped reduce my early frustrations in getting a very sharp edge on a couple of mine. OldDude1

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167841
 
The edges on my Sebbies have varied and some have portions greater than 40 degrees inclusive. I agree with the suggestion of taking the edge down to 15 degrees per side. It will allow you to maintain the edge with a Sharpmaker set at 40 degrees, creating a micro bevel. A few strokes per side with the ultra fine rods easily gets the edge to hair splitting sharp.

Some people advocate much thinner edges, but I find 15 degrees per side improves performance without sacrificing too much edge strength.

I use an Edge Pro, but freehand with an extra course stone will also do the trick, but the result will not be as pretty.
 
Thank you everyone for the replies!
This is of much help and I will check out the other thread "OldDude1".

Will get back to you guys once I have tried all these methods. Hopefully with my return will be a hair popping edge. ;]
 
Sometimes there are contaminants on the Sharpmaker rods that actually cause the nicks. I'd clean with Comet/Barkeepers Friend and a Scotchbrite before continuing just to be safe.
I never reprofiled my Sebenza and try to keep it at it's stock angles, I've only use the Sharpmaker to keep it sharp then when I got my EdgePro I took it to a polished edge. If you can swing it, an EdgePro is a better sharpening tool that helps takes a LOT of guess work out and get the edge you want.
 
Also make sure that you don't push on the rods. It should take very little pressure to get a good edge.
 
I doubt you will want to try a new sharpening system but Ill give you the info anyways.

I was never able to get the sharpness I wanted with stones. I got em sharp just not hair popping sharp. I got myself a bark river knife and the convex snadpaper sharpeining kit from knives ship free. Using the vids on their site I learned how to use this method for sharpening all my knives

I had a few nicks in my seb and it would not slice paper cleanly anymore. 15 mins on my paper and then a strop with black and green compound and it pops hairs again. If you arent happy with your current system it may be worth checking out.
 
Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread! :thumbup:

I FINALLY have a nice sharp edge on 90% of my Sebenza! :D
[the darn tip to mid belly needs(can be) to be sharper]

Due to all the great advice I was successful!
-Used Sharpie
-Cleaned my rods with Scotch Brite
-Started with Med Rods on 30*
-Sharpened on 40* w/med until I got a cuttable edge
-continued with Fine
-Then Ultra Fine
-Stropped
-THE KNIFE SLICED PAPER CLEANLY! :thumbup:

Appreciate all the help and information, perhaps maybe get a different kit down the road, but the sharpmaker pulled through.

Thanks again everyone! :D:thumbup:
 
I dont mean this to be sarcastic but the key is to not let your seb get dull

or even a little dull. It a Lot Easier to keep a sharp edge or very sharp edge

with a few strokes on the fine stones when its not very sharp than to do all

the work you just had to do. The same goes for any knife.:D
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat: Glad that your efforts were largely successful. The (LESS SHARP) blade area you mentioned is that section where the factory applied edge grind ANGLE INCREASES slightly in order to follow the change in blade THICKNESS and shape. This is done to maintain an equal edge GRIND WIDTH along the full length of the blade. If the blade geometry was flat, straight and the same thickness from tip to tang, maintaining a perfectly horizontal blade orientation while stroking the edge on the Sharpmaker rods would result in a perfectly equal edge grind width and a uniformly sharpened edge. Unfortunately, keeping a totally horizontal blade orientation when using a Sharpmaker on a standard Sebenza blade may eventually result in two conditions. 1) You can create an edge grind whose width is narrow and uniform along the straight (rear) section but visibly widens from the belly to the tip. 2) You will not quite reach the cutting edge in the forward blade section until you remove quite a bit more metal than was necessary to obtain a newly sharpened edge. This is because the rods are riding on the SHOULDERS of the original edge grind in the belly to tip area and NOT on the very edge as they are elsewhere along the rest of the blade. The sharpie marker trick should reveal this. The smaller the newly applied edge angle you use (less than factory) the wider the edge bevel will become and the harder it will be to sharpen this area. Successive resharpenings, unless done at increasingly greater angles, will exacerbate this effect and result. There is a way around this. I imagine most Sharpmaker users do it already. Rather than boring others with it's details in this post, if you feel that this information may be of assistance to you just send me a PM. OldDude1
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat: Glad that your efforts were largely successful. The (LESS SHARP) blade area you mentioned is that section where the factory applied edge grind ANGLE INCREASES slightly in order to follow the change in blade THICKNESS and shape. This is done to maintain an equal edge GRIND WIDTH along the full length of the blade. If the blade geometry was flat, straight and the same thickness from tip to tang, maintaining a perfectly horizontal blade orientation while stroking the edge on the Sharpmaker rods would result in a perfectly equal edge grind width and a uniformly sharpened edge. Unfortunately, keeping a totally horizontal blade orientation when using a Sharpmaker on a standard Sebenza blade may eventually result in two conditions. 1) You can create an edge grind whose width is narrow and uniform along the straight (rear) section but visibly widens from the belly to the tip. 2) You will not quite reach the cutting edge in the forward blade section until you remove quite a bit more metal than was necessary to obtain a newly sharpened edge. This is because the rods are riding on the SHOULDERS of the original edge grind in the belly to tip area and NOT on the very edge as they are elsewhere along the rest of the blade. The sharpie marker trick should reveal this. The smaller the newly applied edge angle you use (less than factory) the wider the edge bevel will become and the harder it will be to sharpen this area. Successive resharpenings, unless done at increasingly greater angles, will exacerbate this effect and result. There is a way around this. I imagine most Sharpmaker users do it already. Rather than boring others with it's details in this post, if you feel that this information may be of assistance to you just send me a PM. OldDude1

actually, I would not find that boring at all...
If you could post that, it would be much appreciated (by me anyway :D )
 
I dont mean this to be sarcastic but the key is to not let your seb get dull

or even a little dull. It a Lot Easier to keep a sharp edge or very sharp edge

with a few strokes on the fine stones when its not very sharp than to do all

the work you just had to do. The same goes for any knife.:D

This I understand, this particular Seb I bought used and came to me fairly dull. :o

ZippoThisKnifeThat: Glad that your efforts were largely successful. The (LESS SHARP) blade area you mentioned is that section where the factory applied edge grind ANGLE INCREASES slightly in order to follow the change in blade THICKNESS and shape. This is done to maintain an equal edge GRIND WIDTH along the full length of the blade. If the blade geometry was flat, straight and the same thickness from tip to tang, maintaining a perfectly horizontal blade orientation while stroking the edge on the Sharpmaker rods would result in a perfectly equal edge grind width and a uniformly sharpened edge. Unfortunately, keeping a totally horizontal blade orientation when using a Sharpmaker on a standard Sebenza blade may eventually result in two conditions. 1) You can create an edge grind whose width is narrow and uniform along the straight (rear) section but visibly widens from the belly to the tip. 2) You will not quite reach the cutting edge in the forward blade section until you remove quite a bit more metal than was necessary to obtain a newly sharpened edge. This is because the rods are riding on the SHOULDERS of the original edge grind in the belly to tip area and NOT on the very edge as they are elsewhere along the rest of the blade. The sharpie marker trick should reveal this. The smaller the newly applied edge angle you use (less than factory) the wider the edge bevel will become and the harder it will be to sharpen this area. Successive resharpenings, unless done at increasingly greater angles, will exacerbate this effect and result. There is a way around this. I imagine most Sharpmaker users do it already. Rather than boring others with it's details in this post, if you feel that this information may be of assistance to you just send me a PM. OldDude1

I would love to here the extra information!
We have one other here interested in hearing it as well. Either in a PM or here I would love a further explanation! :D
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat: Glad that your efforts were largely successful. The (LESS SHARP) blade area you mentioned is that section where the factory applied edge grind ANGLE INCREASES slightly in order to follow the change in blade THICKNESS and shape. This is done to maintain an equal edge GRIND WIDTH along the full length of the blade. If the blade geometry was flat, straight and the same thickness from tip to tang, maintaining a perfectly horizontal blade orientation while stroking the edge on the Sharpmaker rods would result in a perfectly equal edge grind width and a uniformly sharpened edge. Unfortunately, keeping a totally horizontal blade orientation when using a Sharpmaker on a standard Sebenza blade may eventually result in two conditions. 1) You can create an edge grind whose width is narrow and uniform along the straight (rear) section but visibly widens from the belly to the tip. 2) You will not quite reach the cutting edge in the forward blade section until you remove quite a bit more metal than was necessary to obtain a newly sharpened edge. This is because the rods are riding on the SHOULDERS of the original edge grind in the belly to tip area and NOT on the very edge as they are elsewhere along the rest of the blade. The sharpie marker trick should reveal this. The smaller the newly applied edge angle you use (less than factory) the wider the edge bevel will become and the harder it will be to sharpen this area. Successive resharpenings, unless done at increasingly greater angles, will exacerbate this effect and result. There is a way around this. I imagine most Sharpmaker users do it already. Rather than boring others with it's details in this post, if you feel that this information may be of assistance to you just send me a PM. OldDude1

Well I would like to read it as well :)
 
When first sharpening my Sebenzas on a Sharpmaker I found that the belly and tip areas of the blade were not turning out as sharp as the straight blade section. This caused me to not only "oversharpen" the straight blade section but also widen the edge grind bevel while trying to reach the dull area of the belly and tip. What follows are ONLY MY OPINIONS and personal observations. This technique removes only a small amount of metal and prolongs the factory edge bevel by sharpening at close to the original grind angle. It sharpens relatively fast since the rods only contact the cutting edge and avoid abrading the sides of the grind bevel. This technique is NOT USEFULL for chip removal, edge reprofiling or sharpening at any angle that is not very close to the current edge bevel grind.

A Sebenza's factory edge grind ANGLE, although consistently well applied is not uniform throughout it's entire length. It is also slightly convex. On the knives I've sharpened, the factory edge grind angle from the choil to the beginning of the belly is at or near 20 degrees per side. This angle increases slightly from about the rear third of the belly to the front third of the belly and then decreases slightly from there to the tip. Therefore, when sharpening, if the contact angle of the blade edge to the Sharpmaker rod does not closely follow the factory applied angle changes, the metal removal may be spot on target in the rear portion of the blade but miss the cutting edge entirely in the curved areas of the front. Like bench stones, using the Sharpmaker is actually "free hand sharpening". The stone angle is fixed while the angle of the blade to stone contact is maintained or varied by the hand of the user. As with many ideas, the methods I use to address this combination of Sebenza and Sharpmaker are not original. They are a compilation of concepts and experience graciously shared by other. With a little repetition this technique quickly becomes ONE FLUID MOTION. It sounds difficult but in practice it is not. When the STANDARD Sharpmaker technique was first described to me as " hold and keep the knife blade horizontal, edge down, and while evenly pulling it toward yourself slowly slide it down the edge of the rod from top to bottom while maintaining even contact pressure between the knife edge and the rod surface ending with the knife tip against the rod at the completion of the motion" it sounded complicated. In practice it was not. Most Sharpmaker users have found that these multiple requirements quickly became one easy motion.

Here is the method I currently use on my Sebenzas:
**Use the Sharpmaker rods set at the 40 degree angle. Use the rod CORNERS ONLY. Mark entire edge bevel with marker. All sharpening is done by stroking toward you from choil to tip. Hold the blade edge parallel to the Sharpmaker base as usual. Perform three or four full strokes on each rod. Examine blade to determine EXACTLY where the rod corners are contacting the edge grind, ESPECIALLY on the REAR STRAIGHT SECTION of the blade. If the contact area has actually reached the edge along the ENTIRE blade length ~ refine it with higher grit rods, strop etc. and have a nice day. If the contact area is very close to the extreme edge (about 1/64") ~ along the rear straight blade section - good. If not, continue sharpening with the blade still held parallel to the base until it is. Don't worry about the belly section and tip just yet. Ideally the contact area should be close but not touch the very edge. 1.) Now, still holding the blade parallel to the base while pulling the knife toward you, AS the rod edge begins to contact the start of the the belly, slightly and smoothly RAISE the knife handle, carefully ending the stroke at the tip with the handle elevated. The concept is to keep the tiny blade edge to stone contact area as horizontal as possible as it moves along the curve of the belly.[[this keeps the edge bevel from widening]] 2.) Building upon this, ~WHILE stroking AND AS you raise the handle, slightly TILT the SPINE of the blade toward the opposite rod. This tilting will move the grind "SHOULDER" { I know it is actually slightly convexed } away from the rod allowing the rod corner to sharpen just the edge itself. [[this further reduces unsightly bevel widening]] 3.) Continue building upon this, ~ WHILE stroking AND raising AND tilting, SMOOTHLY MOVE the butt of the knife handle about one inch toward the opposite rod AS you pass the front of the belly section and proceed to the tip. This movement will help follow the changing edge angle and curve from the front of the belly to the tip. Keeping the blade edge to rod contact pressure consistent throughout the full length of the sharpening stroke will help avoid "oversharpening" in one area. The combined sharpening motion consists of three components: Stroke with edge parallel to the base while sharpening the straight blade section ~ elevate handle WHILE tilting spine inward as you move along the curved belly section ~ move knife butt toward opposite rod when passing the belly and on to the tip. With a little repetition it becomes ONE CONTINUOUS MOTION. Frequently re-mark and inspect the bevel to monitor your contact angle and progress as you now sharpen that last 1/64" of the edge. This technique just mimics the motions used when free hand sharpening on horizontally mounted bench stones with modifications made for the vertical orientation and different shape of the Sharpmaker rods. Go slowly and smoothly. Sharpening one edge until a burr is raised before switching sides or alternating rod to rod without a burr seems to yield the same result. The alternating rod method however removes less metal. The goal is to create a very large micro-bevel while following the factory grind angle changes. It also helps keep a cosmetically uniform edge bevel intact. Once you are satisfied with your technique and the initial results, you can refine and polish your work on the corners of a higher grit rod and or strop. Using the Sharpmaker flats inhibits the effectiveness of this technique since it relies on the narrow surface of the rod corners. The flats can eventually be used but it requires more practice and precision. There are undoubtedly other and more efficient methods of using a Sharpmaker while maintaining a Sebenz'a uniform edge grind width. But ... since my bench stone sharpening skills S*#K, this one works for me. And yes, I am this obsessive and boring in person. OldDude1
 
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I just want to add my note of appreciation for Old Dude's explanation. Very helpful.

He also references something I've always thought: how one is actually "freehanding" with a Sharpmaker. The stones are at a set angle, sure, but you're still responsible for maintaining the proper angle in relation to the stone. And as he points out, what's "proper" may involve more than holding the knife straight up and down and drawing straight back.

I'm committed to mastering various sharpening techniques -- though I've come to the realization that I'm going to practice new techniques on cheap blades first.
 
Just wanted to give thanks to you OldDude1 for taking the time and effort to thoroughly explain your process!

Everything you said makes perfect sense to me and I actually [eventually] naturally found myself slightly lifting up the knife to continue contact with the edge on the belly of the knife. I almost immediately noticed the shoulders being hit when taking straight strokes on the sharpmaker.

Just want to thank you again for all your advice and time to post, in great detail, this process. I will be sure to try this in the future.

As JayTee705 said, I will definitely be practicing this technique with some cheaper knives first. Last thing I want to do is butcher the edge on s30v let alone a Sebenza.
 
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