Need help with a Sharpening Rig

N

neeman

Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
6,249
Hi,

I have a set of Buck stones, a Washita and a small Hard Arkansas.
I have a DMT extra fine.
I just bought a course and extra fine DMT Dia-Sharp.

I have been hand sharpening knives and chisels for years.
But I am new to sharpening modern steels.

My question is which set of 'stones' should be better for sharpening?
How fine are the two natural stones, what grit are they in conparision to the diamond stones?
Do modern steels like ATS 35 need diamond stones?
Also can DMT extra fine wear out?
What do you mean by 'hair popping sharp'
I can feel if an edge is sharp, but better than that?
How can I can I test how sharp a blade is?

I do not seem to be able to get my knives as sharp using the diamond stones.
Even the modern steels seem to get sharper using the two natural stones.
The DMT Dia-Sharp course cuts very fast, but the Dia-Sharp Extra fine does not seem to give me a fine edge.
Am I doing something wrong?

thanks
 
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Source: previous post by Chad Ward
 
Part of your problem is that your EF Diasharp has not worn-in yet. Like fresh sandpaper the grit on a fresh diamond hone is uneven. There are a lot of grit particles that stand up straighter than their neighbors and therefore are making deeper gouges into your edge. With use the tallest grit will get knocked down closer to the hight of the average grit and all of the grit will get a bit broader at the top side. At that point you will get a much smoother edge than now.

Here is another view of how hones compare in general. None of these charts is completely accurate since there are more than two variables that affects their performance.

attachment.php
 
You dont need diamond for the modern steels. However, the natural stones are not much harder than the steels. Silicon Carbide, Aluminum Oxide, and ceramic hones will cut the newer steels, but diamonds do cut anything steel related without question. I sharpened my S60V Kershaw on 320 grit Silicon Carbide Wet/Dry sandpaper and a Spyderco Sharpmaker with ceramic hones. Is this optimal? I dont know, but it gave an edge that would shave hair without touching the skin, and I touched it up on the Sharpmaker about once a week, whether it needed it or not. Occasional returns to the Silicon Carbide were needed, about every 4th sharpening. For testing how sharp an edge is, I suggest using a plastic grocery bag, holding one handle, and trying to cut down the side toward the bottom corner. My edges will still shave hair after loosing the ability to cut the bag easily.
 
Thanks for the graphs.

Matt,
So my white hard arkansas is similar to a fine diamond?

Jeff,
Is it worth working the EF Diasharp with a long blade to wear-in the 'stone'?
And how long does it take to smooth out the EF?

me2,
the natural stones are not much harder than the steels.
Does this mean I will hollow the stones by using them on the modern steels?

Silicon Carbide, Aluminum Oxide, and ceramic hones will cut the newer steels.
What brands are these?

I sharpened my S60V on 320 grit Silicon Carbide Wet/Dry sandpaper.
How is this different from a Washita stone or a medium diamond?

Spyderco Sharpmaker with ceramic hones.
Could you explain the Sharpmaker with what to buy, and do I need it with what I have already?

Thanks
 
Those two charts go a long way for explaing the relative performance of the more common abrasives. For instance the DMT-fine (red) stone at 600 grit or 25 microns is a little coarser than a white hard Arkansas which is about 15 microns as shown on the 1st chart. The second chart shows that the DMT-fine cuts much faster (maybe 4 or 5 times faster). If you use the Arkansas on S30V I would expect it to be slow going for anything other than a small micro-bevel.
 
me2 said:
...For testing how sharp an edge is, I suggest using a plastic grocery bag, holding one handle, and trying to cut down the side toward the bottom corner. My edges will still shave hair after loosing the ability to cut the bag easily.
Click to expand...
Thin plastic bags are excellent tests for sharpness. After clocking in at work I'd grab a new set of earplugs and cut the plastic bag open. Even though the edge would shave, I could tell it was dulling by the way it cut the earplug bag. On a new and properly sharpened edge, it would sail right through with no bunching. Now it's the last test for me. Even some hair popping edges have failed this test. I've had a few sessions that just wouldn't pass this test and I just accepted that it wasn't my night. The edge was more than acceptable but it wasn't plastic proof.
 
You don't want to lose the quick cutting action of your EF diamond hone prematurely. It is an asset. I would use it as an intermediate step between your coarse hone and your natural hones for a few months (finishing your edge with just a few strokes on your washita and hard arkansas stones). As time goes on you will find that the EF is cutting slower and smoother. You will find you can drop out the washita and maybe later the hard arkansas.
 
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