Need help with cutting mammoth molar.

[groy87]

I just received a batch of stabilized mammoth molar scraps from mother of pearl and I am looking to cut them into 1/4" spacers for my hidden tang knife handles. I do not have a bandsaw and was wondering if there are any alternative methods for cutting the pieces to the desired shape. I am currently getting quotes form local jewelers to process the blanks but what I got so far is quite high. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ron_m80]

You should look into AB96, which went into effect July 1st (last year) before buying animal materials if you are located in OC, Ca. Just letting you know as an advisory, not making any statement toward you.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

I'd take them to the dentist.


You might be able to purchase a small tile saw and a thin kerf diamond blade for not too much... you'll have to shim the blade or the likes but that might do the trick. I've never cut any...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

OK, two things you need to know up front:
1) Mammoth tooth will almost surely fall apart in cutting.
2) Mammoth tooth will almost surely fall apart in cutting.


Start with flooding the tooth with thin CA from both sides and letting it soak in. Repeat as many times as needed to fill all cracks and spaces.

Flatten the back side on a flat disk or by hand on a flat plate with the sandpaper taped down. It is best to sand and grind mammoth tooth while wet if at all possible.

To mitigate the pieces falling apart, the flattened slabs are laminated on 1/8" G-10. Use a good grade resin like G-flex. Don't clamp hard .. just enough to hold the pieces together as the resin cures. If the slabs are thick, and will be cut down into thinner slabs, flatten the top side and laminate on another piece of G-10.
This helps keep the pieces from falling away, when they come apart. You can use thinner G-10, but it increases the breakage. If cutting the slabs into many pieces, cut off each backed slice and re-flatten and apply new G-10 on each set of cuts.

There is no satisfactory replacement for a band saw in cutting mammoth tooth ( unless you have access to a large diameter diamond bladed lapidary water cooled saw). Saw the slabs down with a band saw that has a bi-metal or carbide blade. Run the saw slow and don't let the tooth chatter or jam. A really good trick is to make a sled with a piece of 4X4 and attach the G-10 backed slab to it with 3-M double sided woodworking tape. The 4X4 can be handed safely and slide along the fence.

 

[groy87]

No worries. I just do this as a hobby and don't sell any of my knives. I enjoy experimenting with new materials and this one is on my hobby bucket list lol.

 

[groy87]

OK, two things you need to know up front:
1) Mammoth tooth will almost surely fall apart in cutting.
2) Mammoth tooth will almost surely fall apart in cutting.


Start with flooding the tooth with thin CA from both sides and letting it soak in. Repeat as many times as needed to fill all cracks and spaces.

Flatten the back side on a flat disk or by hand on a flat plate with the sandpaper taped down. It is best to sand and grind mammoth tooth while wet if at all possible.

To mitigate the pieces falling apart, the flattened slabs are laminated on 1/8" G-10. Use a good grade resin like G-flex. Don't clamp hard .. just enough to hold the pieces together as the resin cures. If the slabs are thick, and will be cut down into thinner slabs, flatten the top side and laminate on another piece of G-10.
This helps keep the pieces from falling away, when they come apart. You can use thinner G-10, but it increases the breakage. If cutting the slabs into many pieces, cut off each backed slice and re-flatten and apply new G-10 on each set of cuts.

There is no satisfactory replacement for a band saw in cutting mammoth tooth ( unless you have access to a large diameter diamond bladed lapidary water cooled saw). Saw the slabs down with a band saw that has a bi-metal or carbide blade. Run the saw slow and don't let the tooth chatter or jam. A really good trick is to make a sled with a piece of 4X4 and attach the G-10 backed slab to it with 3-M double sided woodworking tape. The 4X4 can be handed safely and slide along the fence.

Stacy,

Thank you for the advice!" I am looking to process the rough blocks into slabs so I am as assuming the G10 backing may not work too well. I was thinking of a thin softwood backing to mount the rough molar to while cutting. I also do not have access to a band saw yet is there a copping saw blade that could be used instead or am i out of luck on this one?

 

[rustysocket]

You can get a bandsaw for 100$. Or get a fine tooth miterbox and some clamps and go real slow.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Mammoth tooth is normally too hard for regular saws. It is generally pretty well fossilized. Drilling it, as well as cutting it, is also a real skill.

1/4" unbacked slices of mammoth tooth will be just about a guarantee to fall in pieces. Also, remember - these were scraps. If it was the top of the line stuff, they would have cut it up themselves.


My final comment is that mammoth tooth takes better grade equipment and higher skill level. Many very experienced maker won't ever touch it again after doing a few handles. Many other makers have half a set of scales or a bag of broken pieces in their shop.




All I ever use mammoth tooth for now days is for display bases and pen stands.

 

[Mark Knapp]

I never cut teeth wet, the pith in between the layers of enamel absorb the water and swell pushing the teeth apart. I always soak teeth in CA glue as Stacy said. I bought a hobby lapidary saw with a six inch by .030 diamond blade for thirty bucks on ebay for my smaller stuff. The diamond blade is a lot less harsh on teeth than a band saw, never gets dull either.

 

[Kevin McGovern]

Won't the fact that it's stabilized reduce the risk of it coming apart in cutting?

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Not much! Stabilizing mainly keeps the softer part of the tooth from crumbling and soaking up too much water. Even if stabilized, you have to flood it with CA and glue up all the cracvks. Neew cracks and breaks will likely form in cutting and shaping, so keep the CA handy as you work the tooth.


I generally advise those who ask me that I think mammoth tooth is sort of a waste of time for the heavy handle and often mediocre results that you get.

 

[Horsewright]

AB 96 takes effect this year (July 1 2016) not last year. It was signed last year, Oct 4th. The bill also prohibits you from buying mammoth tooth, mammoth ivory and other ivories not just selling them or selling a knife made from them. Just a heads up. I make (well use to) make a lot of knives for working cowboys using mammoth tooth. I sandwich it between spacer material to work and this allows me to cut and drill the material. I do use a Dewalt Porta Band on a Swag table to cut tooth. I use the scraps for spacers like you are wanting to and it makes a cool knife. This one is from a set of six matching steak knives. Camel bone is the handle material.

One of my cowboy knives, a Tapadero with tooth spacers and Stag handle.

Just so ya know there is nothing in the bill that prevents you working on, or possessing these materials, just the buying and selling of them. I checked this and had it confirmed by Fish and Game.

Not often I disagree with Stacy...... perhaps not everyone's taste but mediocre...not so much... The knife that produced the scrap for the Tapadero.

 

[Mark Knapp]

I have hundreds of knives out with mammoth tooth in them, either whole handles or spacers. I very seldom get any back for repairs, and it is one of my most often requested materials. The material is not for everybody but it can be worked and made into an attractive, durable handle. Particular methods of workmanship and styles of knives are better suited for mammoth tooth than others.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

"Not often I disagree with Stacy...... perhaps not everyone's taste but mediocre...not so much... "

I pretty much knew that there would be a response to my comment. I would point out that my advise was to people who did not work mammoth and did not have the tools to do it. Obviously, professionals like Mark and Dave can do it to a stunning degree. Also, they are working with top grade material.

 

[Mark Knapp]

"Not often I disagree with Stacy...... perhaps not everyone's taste but mediocre...not so much... "

I pretty much knew that there would be a response to my comment. I would point out that my advise was to people who did not work mammoth and did not have the tools to do it. Obviously, professionals like Mark and Dave can do it to a stunning degree. Also, they are working with top grade material.

Understood.

 

[europeanoutdoorsman]

Hi guys,
Been awhile since I posted. I got a mammoth tooth as well. As far as I can tell, it was one of the high end pieces. It was 3x more expensive it came stabilized, cut, and surface ground. I have been putting this project off because I feel personally that it is above my skill level and that I need more patience when it comes to something like this.

On some other thread (can't find it now), someone had recommended contacting a guy who deals mainly in mammoth tooth. I did that. I can't remember his name, but he did tell me that these can be cut using waterjet. But, based on my experiences, water jet may just blow the whole tooth up.

I am putting this on a damascus blade and don't want to use G10 as a backing. I'd prefer to use 2mm-3mm (slightly less than 1/8") brass as a liner.

As far as working it to finish. I am not concerned too much as this is obviously a more expensive piece and I am not concerned with time or tools involved as I'd be finishing the handle completely by hand in order to avoid heat and overworking.

I admit I am totally terrified of cutting the tooth.

I am wondering that if I am drilling or cutting with the brass side facing up or down, will this make any difference in stability? Here is what I am working with...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

"Brass Side" ??? is it laminated on a sheet of brass? I don't know that I ever saw or read of that before.

It is best to have the saw teeth going down into the tooth from the show side. That would be with the liner side down. The underside has a larger chance of blow-out chipping and flaking as the blade teeth exit the brittle mammoth tooth. The liner supports the tooth, and also greatly reduces chipping on the bottom. The cut will still have some spalling along the top edges, so cut with sufficient extra to grind down to the final shape.

 

[europeanoutdoorsman]

"Brass Side" ??? is it laminated on a sheet of brass? I don't know that I ever saw or read of that before.

It is best to have the saw teeth going down into the tooth from the show side. That would be with the liner side down. The underside has a larger chance of blow-out chipping and flaking as the blade teeth exit the brittle mammoth tooth. The liner supports the tooth, and also greatly reduces chipping on the bottom. The cut will still have some spalling along the top edges, so cut with sufficient extra to grind down to the final shape.

Thanks for the advice. Makes sense. As for the liner part... As the backing, yes, I'd like to put brass. The tooth itself did not come with brass, but I'll get a piece and pop it on there and let it cure for awhile. Then cut away. The stand for the knife is also a mammoth vertebrae.

 

[Randydb]

So AB96 rule means no selling or buying ivory/tooth type material or things made from it. What does this mean for people like Mark that have a bunch of knives and material? Does he need special documentation to sell it or is he sitting on a bunch of expensive gifts?

EDIT*** Looked up the law. It's a California law. Not national.

 

[Horsewright]

But that does apply to us here in Kali. So yes our own personal mammoth ivory or tooth handled knives now have no value.