Need help with noob setup!!!!!!

B

brandondferrier

Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
65
:eek:hello all!
i have been REALLY wanting to get into knife making!
i have my step father working on building me a workbench (nothing major, just a 2x4 or 2x5 ft.)
anyway, i have been approved for a sears credit card and will be getting my tax returns back soon.
so, my budget right now would maybe be about 600 bucks give or take a little.

my question to all you knife makers.........
what should i buy to get started on stock removal? i have NO TOOLS AT ALL.
do i get files, sand paper, belt sander/grinder, vice grip, handle materials, drill?

i want to be able to spend the 600 dollars or so and be able to make a finished knife.

so i would like input from you guys on what equipment to buy and where to buy it and so on and so forth.

any help is greatly appreciated. thanks a million.
brandon.

p.s. if someone could make a list of products and links on where to get them at a good price i would love you so much!!!!!!!!
im such a beginner and need help in getting the RIGHT SETUP THE FIRST TIME.
 
My personal opinion would be:

#1 - Buy your hobby materials with your tax return, not on credit (just a personal choice thing for me)

As for what you need, I'm sure many people more experienced will be able to tell you better than I, but here is what I would get:

Safety glasses - sam's club has 'em in a 5 or 6 pack for $12, but a good pair anywhere is <$20
Gloves - I found a 2 pair pack of mechanic's style at Home Depot recently for $10
Hearing protection if you buy power tools
Files - Nicholson bastard course and medium files at HD for about $10 ea
High tension hacksaw - good one at HD for $25 or so - get good bimetal blades, too! OR Harbor Freight/Milwaukee/Dewalt portable band saw and footswitch - $100-$300
Drill press - Harbor Freight or wherever - $59-$xxx - buy the best bits you can afford
Vice - I have a decent Chinese 6", but I would probably try to buy a better one if I was doing it again.

Any/all of these can be bought used from pawn shops, craigslist, etc. I try to do that to save on cost. Hope this helps!
 
Hi Brandon, check out the sticky's at the top of the Bladesmith forum. It has all the info you will need. I'm also very new at this, and I'm still assembling the tools and materials that I will need to get started. Someone told me that you can make a knife with basic hand tools, but the power tools make the work go faster. I'm planning on making my first knife with just files, sandpaper, drill press and vise. I'm very close to you (only about 30 minutes away). My thinking is if I can learn to do it with just hand tools, the power tools will just make it faster. If I were you, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on tools for the first knife. Make sure you enjoy it, before you spend all that money.
 
The stickies are a great place to start but you need to give some thought on how you personally are going to approach the knife.

1. Steel
2. Cutting Profile, hacksaw, bandsaw, drill and chisel, angle grinder ??
3. Finish profile, grinder, file, angle grinder??
4. Bevels, grinder, files,
5. Holes for pins, hand drill, dremel, desktop drill, what size drill bits
6. Heat Treat? most likely send out see what steel your HT guy can do for you
7. Shape handle, bandsaw, hand saw, grinder, file, sand paper
8. finish, lots of sandpaper.

I suggest starting with a plastic or cardboard model of your knife and then choose a steel and handle material and then go though the list and see how you plan to accomplish each task. You should end up with a tool list and then look at the cost and see where you are budget wise.

Good luck
 
thanks to everyone who posted so far!
they "main" thing im interested in would be the grinder/sander.
that is where i think i would spend the most money.
i want a good one that will last me several years.
i guess i would use it to shape and finish the knife.
any suggestions......
been looking at the kalamazoo 1sm
and craftsman 2x42.
anything else out there that is around 100-250ish bucks of great quality?

plus keep the other tools i need coming! but so far i got a good idea of what i would need.....
 
Welcome fellow Wisconsinite!
As Mooseyard said, you don't NEED a belt grinder. I think there is some sort of unwritten law that prohibits first time knife makers from making a knife with anything BUT a file and sandpaper. However, if you choose to deprive yourself of the numerous lessons one gets from making a knife with files then the Sears 2 X 42 is OK. If it sounds like less than a ringing endorsement that's because it is. It is not designed to be a knife making grinder and its major sin is that it goes too fast and can't be slowed down. Never the less, I feel that for the price you get a good machine that will last you far more than a couple years and that is capable of being used to make very nice knives. It's not the gun, it's the gunner. I don't know about any other brands of low-cost belt grinders.

I hope that someday if my 2 X 42 will eat its vegetables it will grow up to be a big, powerful variable speed 2 X 72 grinder. $ome day, if you catch my drift. My next major tool purchase will probably be either a buffer or portable band saw.

For your first knife don't try to design and make your "ideal" knife. Rather keep it small and simple. It will give you more "learning opportunities" than you probably thought were possible.

I like the concept of Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop book. You don't HAVE to spend a lot of money to make knives. Be creative. For instance, handle material, I look through GoodWill and stores like this for serving trays, book ends, whatever else there that is made out of wood. Do you have any friends who do woodwork? You don't need a lot of wood to make a knife handle and they might have a small piece of walnut or birds-eye maple that they would let you use. Keep your mind and eyes open to opportunities.

In addition to what others have said:

Lanyard hole liner - Small copper plumbing tubing is 1/4" OD
Pin material - Bronze welding (or is it brazing?) rod from the hardware store. Get a drill bit of the same size.
Glue - SLOW cure epoxy
Clamps - a couple. I prefer the screw type to the ones you squeeze to tighten up.
Rasp - for shaping the handle
Vise - Larger rather than smaller
Drill - Drill press is preferable but a power hand drill would work
a steel brush to clean your files
Handle finish - sort of wood finish. It depends on what the handle is made of. How about WaterLox tung oil for wood?

The Sears grinder is good for the price. That would still leave you money to get the other things.

Good luck. Let's see some drawings and ideas.

- LonePine
Alias Paul Meske, Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
 
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im getting really intimidated about knife making. but i KNOW i want to do this forever and i haven't even made my first knife. lol! but, thanks fellow wisconsinite! that helped and scared me. hahahha. i know this will be tough.
what drill press you recommend?
 
brandondferrier said:
im getting really intimidated about knife making. but i KNOW i want to do this forever and i haven't even made my first knife. lol! but, thanks fellow wisconsinite! that helped and scared me. hahahha. i know this will be tough.
what drill press you recommend?
Click to expand...

brandondferrier

If this is scaring you then you are over-thinking it. Get that first knife under your belt (figuratively that is. You should really carry your knife in a sheath). That will take some of the mystery out of it and the pressure off. There are some amazing people who’s first knife looked like it was done by a professional. And then there are people like me who (intentionally!!) left a LOT of room for improvement. It doesn’t really matter how it turns out, it will still be the BEST knife you’ve ever made. Like a first car, it will always have a special place in your heart regardless of how ugly it may appear to others.

You will NEVER have EVERYTHING you want for making knives. Don’t deprive yourself of the fun by waiting until then. Clamp a piece of steel to a board and start filing already!

I'll tell you what the BEST drill press is. It's a FREE one. I have two of them and didn't pay for either of them. I was given one by a friend when his father died, (a bench model) and my second one is a large floor stand model that my neighbor was looking to get rid of. It has one teensy little problem though. It blows the breaker when I turn it on. I’m making an assumption that it is probably a problem with the motor and plan to replace it when I can find a suitable one.

As with any tool, get the best you can afford. Drop hints around your birthday and Christmas. Look through Craig’s List. Borrow a drill from someone until you can find what you need. Don’t get one that is too small and underpowered. Go with bigger and more powerful, you know, the best you can afford.

Sooooooo, do you have your steel yet?

Paul Meske
 
brandondferrier said:
what is a good steel to work with my first time?
leaf springs? 1095? O1?
Click to expand...

If you are using hand tools and sending out for heat treat, I like the precision ground O1.

Leaf springs are hard and need annealing, but O1 stock is fully annealed and hacksaws/flies like butter.
 
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12345678910 said:
If you are using hand tools and sending out for heat treat, I like the precision ground O1.

Leaf springs are hard and need annealing, but O1 stock is fully annealed and hacksaws/flies like butter.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right. If you're going to attempt your own HT, stick with 1080/1084. Either way use NEW steel.
 
12345678910 said:
If you are using hand tools and sending out for heat treat, I like the precision ground O1.

Leaf springs are hard and need annealing, but O1 stock is fully annealed and hacksaws/flies like butter.
Click to expand...

i'll use O1. thanks. what does it mean when they talk about o1 oil queching and stuff?
 
brandondferrier said:
i'll use O1. thanks. what does it mean when they talk about o1 oil queching and stuff?
Click to expand...



Watch this video and stuff

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4




Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v12

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It&#8217;s being reprinted now, you can get it for $20 ish


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner&#8217;s book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72&#8221; belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
&#8220;Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter&#8221;

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
&#8220;Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose&#8221;
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting&#8230;
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking


Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The &#8220;welding steel&#8221; at Home Depot / Lowes&#8230; is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Ph# 862-203-8160

Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72&#8221; Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm &#8211; Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72&#8221; Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =&#8220;Free&#8221; backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com


Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
I have a sign at my shop door, &#8220;Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Lungs&#8221; as a reminder to take off jewelry and put on my safety gear.

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309


V12 Edited dead links
 
Quote: "i'll use O1. thanks. what does it mean when they talk about o1 oil queching and stuff?"

Read the sticky on the Process and Principles of Quenching.

The science/art of metalurgy has been one of the most challenging aspects of knife making for me. After wrestling with it for three years, reading and RE-reading the same things, and reading stuff word-by-word, and line-by-line, to be able to wrap my brain around it, I feel like I BEGINNING to START to understand it. We're blessed with people who understand it so well they probably know how the iron in their blood could be heat treated.

Because I desire to do my own heat treatment and only have a charcoal coffee can forge to do it with I'm using 1080 steel. (Read the sticky on Working the Three Steel Types). If you plan to send your blade out for heat treatment then you can use any type steel that you can afford and that your heat treater of choice can deal with.

If you understand what these two stickies are saying the first time you read them you're a smarter man than I. Head over to Northeast Wisconsin Technical College Library. They should have books on metallurgy. Read the pertinent sections in several different books. For me one book was real good at explaining the crystal structure and changes in it, and another was better at explaining the changes from pearlite, to austenite, to martensite, etc, and a third book was more useful for understanding the tempering process. For now however follow the advice given in this thread and keep reading and studying about it. You will find other advice elsewhere, maybe conflicting advice, but you gotta start somewhere so start here.

- Paul Meske
 
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