Need help with pricing on antique Butterfly Swords.

[Alarick]

Seems like I have a bit of a rough one for a first post, but here goes.

A high end custom sword maker (to remain nameless for the time being) has a pair of 160 year old (give or take) pattern welded Chinese Butterfly Swords.

They have (according to the swordsmith) the original hardware minus the scabbard, but there is a crack in the tang on one.
No idea how bad the crack is.

Their asking price was first mentioned to me at around $800 give or take before any repairs by a salesman, but he was not 100% sure of the exact price but said it was in that range.

I mentioned that I was in fact interested in the swords IF the crack in the tang could be repaired, but that I needed a price first, and needed to see them.

Well a week later I finally hear a price after the repairs.
$4,000.

They already started the needed repairs on the tang, as well as custom making a scabbard and sharpening them, so there is no going back to the pre-repair price.

Having spoken with a different salesman about what those repairs would run normally for random Joe who needed them, I was quoted under $500.


Now I have not even seen these Butterfly Swords, not even pictures.
No clue as to who made them, what part of China they where made in, or how the Swordsmith who owns dated them at 160 years old.

I do not doubt that they are actual antiques or the 160 year old age estimate, but the sudden jump from the sub $1k to $4k price tag is a bit much.

Can anyone help me out on a guesstimate on what antique Butterfly Swords can range in by price?

 

[Triton]

Is your radar pinging? If not it should be. The fact that you are asking this question tells me that yours probably is too.

Consider...

1) You've for all practical purposes been baited and switched on the price intentionally or not I couldn't say.

2) You have no idea of the provenance of these particular pieces, you are basically taking the seller's word for it.

3) By making "repairs" and sharpening the pieces a good part of the intrinsic value of the pieces as antiques has been / is being destroyed... yet the price is going UP.



Were it me I think I might talk to these folks:

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/html/

Quality folks, who will steer you right and are recognized experts in the field of Chinese weaponry.

My two cents.

 

[Alarick]

My gut is telling me to make a 180 and run, fast...

Having spoken with a couple other people who know the Swordsmith I have come to find out that his company is in financial trouble, and that he has on at least one other occasion done this sort of thing with an antique blade.

Quoting one price before fully inspecting the blade, then after inspecting it finding something that would make it more valuable than the price he quoted, then raising the price.

I am not a collector, but I do practice Wing Chun and having a set of antique Butterfly Swords does appeal to me.
The blades losing some of their value from having the cracked tang repaired does not bother me as I would want them to be safe to practice with (obviously would not be cutting anything with them, just doing the form)

But as you mentioned that sort of thing should lower the value, not raise it (at least not more than the actual labor hours the work would take) and I have seen enough episodes of Antiques Roadshow when I did not have cable for a while to know that as well.


I've already told them not only no, but hell no.


I will send the guys at Seven Star Trading an e-mail and see if they have run across any antique Butterfly Swords.

Failing that, I'm going to see if there are any Swordsmiths around that can custom forge a pair Wing Chun correct Butterfly Swords and take that route, as most of the modern commercially available ones are either low quality, overpriced for 440 stainless, or not made correctly for Wing Chun.

Thanks for the advice, and the link,

 

[Triton]

My gut is telling me to make a 180 and run, fast...

If something feels shady, go with the feeling. I've got a pretty good guess as to who you are dealing with and shady doesn't even start to describe it.

I will send the guys at Seven Star Trading an e-mail and see if they have run across any antique Butterfly Swords.

Failing that, I'm going to see if there are any Swordsmiths around that can custom forge a pair Wing Chun correct Butterfly Swords and take that route, as most of the modern commercially available ones are either low quality, overpriced for 440 stainless, or not made correctly for Wing Chun.

Thanks for the advice, and the link,

They might be able to point you towards someone to make you a new pair as well, if they don't have an antique set available. Good luck in your search. :thumbup: