Need information on an old trade axe

V

valuator

Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
15
I purchased this at an estate sale. The man running the sale told me that the old man was still using this old axe before he passed away. I know its a trade axe, but was curious about the touch mark on the side. Anyone know anything about the maker or date? Thanks.
kh6HDWQ.jpg
[/IMG]
31RDwoJ.jpg
[/IMG]
KGOUSY4.jpg
[/IMG]
uoNrlpq.jpg
[/IMG]
 
I can't give any insight but based on the pattern and the condition it almost has to be very old. Probably a nice piece of history there.
 
Ugaldie said:
I think it is a Byscaine hatchet marked with the jesuit cross. Take a look at this page, if it's not a fake (I don't think so), you have a interesting historical piece, steel made tomahawk's grandpa.
Click to expand...
Couldn't open the link but do recall a History Channel? documentary that featured the same or similar stamp being found on a piece of broken steel that was unearthed in a NE USA Indian village that had already been abandoned before European contact (namely before 1500 AD). The theory put forward here was that Basque fishermen's seasonal habitations, near what is now called Port Aux Basques, Newfoundland, were often scavenged by local Natives during the winter months and that somehow shards of metal (ie discarded broken tools) wound up being traded with other Tribes.
Well worth doing some homework on this one, as well as contacting some museums!
 
Wow...it really does look like those axes Ugaldie posted. Unless it's an apparently old replica which is possible, that thing could be up to four hundred years old. Cool find!!!
 
Great looking old piece. If you don't mind me asking what did you pay for it ?
 
Well...I think it was around $10.00. I bought some other old tools with it. From the limited information that I have found on the web, I think its from the 1500-1600's. It might need to be in a museum. I think it is funny that the guy was still using it in his wood shop. He put a pretty good edge on it too.
 
valuator said:
Well...I think it was around $10.00. I bought some other old tools with it. From the limited information that I have found on the web, I think its from the 1500-1600's. It might need to be in a museum. I think it is funny that the guy was still using it in his wood shop. He put a pretty good edge on it too.
Click to expand...

Particularly enduring, useful and well made tools have entirely suffered from being coveted by today's Idle-Rich-Pretend--Craftsmen-soft-handed-Collector-Hobbyist Class (which describes the most of us). These implements then wind up in museums, on walls and in closets and never (or rarely) get used.
If in fact for $10 you accidentally managed to bring home a 500 year old axe (along with it's 'in-keeping with the style' bushcraft handle) than you really owe it to yourself, and especially the Estate of the deceased, to 'limber it up' again before posting it up on flea-bay as if this is a winning lottery ticket.

A group of aviation enthusiasts in Hamilton Ontario meticulously resurrected a pedestal-display-scrapped WWII Lancaster 4 engine bomber over a period of 20 years and last summer had the audacity/confidence to fly it across the North Atlantic Ocean to pair with the only other flying Lanc in the world so as to commemorate the Battle of Britain. You really can't put a price on something like this. The rumble of 8 piston-twirling 12 cylinder Merlins and watching the silhouettes of two history-famous planes circle over the Cliffs of Dover brought tears to the eyes of many. Quite unlike the experience of walking by a roped-off static display of yet another sterile exhibit at a museum.
 
I agree with you on the fact that most people would use this as a "wall hanger", and a good point could be made as to why it should be coveted as an artifact. However, I will probably carry it for camp use and conversation. It has a good edge and makes quick work fire kindling. The old wagon wheel spoke handle is hard as a rock and fits tightly in the head. I own very few tools that are younger that 50 years old, most are over 50, and I use them all frequently.
 
I love this thread. This is the essence of finding, appreciating and touching history.
 
Enjoy and care of your finding valuator.

Those hatchet were the best regarded by American natives. The place were they came had one of the best iron ore of Europe, this was known before Romans came an was well in demand mostly by the UK, France and Castillan kingdom (Spain). Indeed the famous Toledan swordmakers prefered steel was made wth this iron ore. Steel producing was so well dominated that, combined with so good ore, they didn't need one of the refining steps to produce it and even so they produced a superior steel.

The place it came from had a milenarian blacksmith tradition, that has been almost all lost. All this combined has given so good tools as you have, centuries later still able to do the job it was produced to do.
 
I think this axe will be 500-300 years old, can you take more photos to it in order to look for more information? I especially look for photos from the top and bottom, and the eye.

To make things clear, when we are talking about Biscay, we are not talking about actual administrative province named Bizkaia. Those times when they refered to Biscaye they refered to the place were basque people lived. Nowadays some Argentinians continue using this form, they refer to Spanish as "Gallegos" and to Basque peolple as "Vizcainos".

I live were Jesuit founder was born and I know more or less their influence area in those time. If we can date this axe as an early piece, I can say it was surely made in the province of Gipuzkoa and most probably shipped from Bayonne.

valuator, can you measure the eye width on the upper and down side?
 
Here you go. I sure appreciate all of the helpful research.

mPzd0vE.jpg
[/IMG]
FWajCcf.jpg
[/IMG]
dOhxaJ0.jpg
[/IMG]
TisbqN7.jpg
[/IMG]
qs1R5zp.jpg
[/IMG]
LlKZqfA.jpg
[/IMG]
nnBRTNM.jpg
[/IMG]
CjIbw0v.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Highly unlikely for this to be a fake! Toe is disproportionately worn as you'd expect of a much-used implement and the top of the eye has been bashed-in from being used as a hammer. I'm guessing that comparing the specific head profiles and the maker stamps with known date/era examples will enable you to fine-tune the age of this baby. I'd like to hear about what you discover.

The other thing that would be interesting is to compare the ease of sharpening and durability of the edge compared to various vintage and modern blades. Hardness obviously ain't everything or this tool would have fractured/split/shattered/chipped a very long time ago.
 
Does anyone happen to have the book Les Armes de Traite by Russel Bouchard? It apparently had a dating method for this type of Biscayne Trade axe.
 
Dooooh, you've got me wicked jealous now! Sweet Biscayne man, got myself a mini biscayne but it ain't nearly as old as this, made by some smiths up north one one of the reservations. Heel looks sharp as heck, and the toe shows use. You'd think here in the north woods you'd find more of these.
 
It looks like it is not in the newest group, but I can't say when was it produced. It seems the fabrication of these axes is more complex than I learned, they weren't exclusively made in the Basque Country, they also were produced in certain zones of France (surely near of or in the Biscayne gulf) and in some American French zones (Quebeq at least, no quantity and time lapse information). My thought is that this is a early fur trade era Basque region design Biscayne axe, but I can't exactly say were it was done. will be better if you contact a especialist.

300Six is right, this axe eye has had a hard pounding. It originally was oval, I think this type of axe usage originated today's standard polled axe, more balanced head and the almost total widespread of the wedged handle was a subproduct of it.

It seems the top zone of the bit has been the most used and grinded, take care when you sharpen it, could not have much steel here compared with other zones.
 
Thank you Ugaldie and 300six for your information. I will take care when sharpening. I will update with the performance when I get the chance to test it more.
 
Thanks Darthtaco123. It certainly is an interesting piece. I can only imagine the journey that this axe has been on to make it all the way to Oklahoma. However, the area I live in was once known as "Indian territory" or "Oklahoma IT". Maybe it got here from the native American relocation. I will never know... It looks like it originated up North somewhere.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top