need knife info for trial

C

Catherine Wilder

Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
2
I am a defense attorney and my client is charged with having a gravity knife. This is a felony in New York state, and he is facing prison time, because he has a prior criminal conviction. He did not use the knife, he just had it on him. I will be cross examining a police officer who has no special training in knives/weapons. The DA did not get an expert.
I am trying to show the knife they have is not a gravity knife, because it won't lock open most of the time.
I am looking for web site links two things:
1. General information on the definitions and classifications of different types of knives, the differences between tool knives and weapon knives, etc.
2. Anything about gravity knives!!
Any help is appreciated.
(P.S. I have a beautiful double edged boot knife which was present, which I think is a great knife, even though I am not a collector.)
 
If you need to contact someone get in touch with Evan Nappen. He is a NJ attorney that specializes in this sort of thing. He is also a member of this site. You also don't need to start more than one thread on the subject in multiple forums. Moving this to Knife Laws Forum.
 
NYS Penal law defines a Gravity knife fairly clearly. If it is designed to lock open but does not do so all the time, it maybe a defense, but not a strong one. The law reguarding gravity knives was first passed to ban knives that where made to open only via gravity and where designed to do so. It has been taken to include any lock blade knife that has become loose enough to flip open. The only legal way to possess a gravity knife is listed in NYS PL 265.20 excepition#6.
The only defense that would apply other than #6, would be that the knife was not designed to be used as a gravity knife, but that use has caused it to loosen where as it can be opened that way. What type of knife is it? The manufacturer maybe be able to help as they are not allowed to ship gravity knives accross state lines and therefore most likely have a belief that it is not per se a gravity knife. Buck has designed the model 110 never to be opened this way....



The real gravity knives did not have nail knicks, detents, and usually fell into the open position by dropping straight down the handle ( paratrooper knives are a good example of this). The term gravity knife grew to include almost anyknife that the officer involved could open with centifical force. The law in NYS was passed in 1958 and the models displayed at that time where true gravity knives...that was the items tha law was intended to ban. If you look up NYS case law you will find that butterfly knives have been deterimed at trial not to be gravity knives, and that in the judges opinion he stated the law was vague as to what is a true
gravity knife and that under strict interpation a boy scout knife maybe be a gavity knife given the right conditions....


My only other suggestion would be that since the federal law was based on the NYS law passed a year earlier, and I assume that the knife in question was imported and/or sold legally, that it must have been declared not to be a gravity knife at some point. The fact the lock does not always engage may work to your defense that the knife has become a gravity knife not by design, but rather by use and the natural wearing in of the parts, and therefore if it was once allowed to be imported and or cross state lines, it therefore was deemed not to be a gravity knife by definition, and may not be operable as a gravity knife by the general public, since its design is not to be such. If the Officer has developed a special skill that allows him to open the knife in this manner, than that in and of itself maybe a defense.....send a picture or state make and model if possible...
 
Catherine Wilder said:
This is a felony in New York state, and he is facing prison time, because he has a prior criminal conviction.
Click to expand...

Without knowing all the details. I'm assuming the criminal conviction was for a felony. So, he probably SHOULD NOT have been carrying the knife in the first place. Sounds like good police work. While everyone is entitled to good representation, maybe he needs to get locked up.

I realize that you have a tough job and I respect what you are doing. Even so, this may be the type of person the laws were designed to protect us from.

If anyone wants to read the NYPC regarding this, here it is below for your viewing pleasure.
-----
New York Penal Code
Section 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or....

Section 265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree when:
(1) Such person commits the crime of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five of section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime; or....

Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony.

Section 265.00 Definitions
5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.
 
Welcome! :)

You will find the information you need by following the link below.

My most recent NY City gravity knife consultation was March 11.

BRL...
 
I agree with Pahtoocara as to him having a past criminal history, but in NYS this is defined as ANY CRIME. It could have been anything other than a violation ( meaning any misdomeanor) and that would constitute a crime and therefore cause this to become a felony. If he has past robbery convictions, then he may have had ill intent for the knife, but if he had any violations of the NYC admin Code, or any minor NYS PL laws, then he is now facing a felony charge on that basis.

Bernard....I always wondered why you don't post NYS PL 265.20 exception #6 in your list of the NYS laws?? It holds true for the NYC admin code also.
 
Ms. Wilder,
From reading Mr. Levine's website, it appears that he is more than qualified to be a expert witness in a case such as this.

From my own personal experiences, when someone get charged with a charge like this, it is usually due to them being involved in something else that draws police attention. For instance: drunk or fighting in public, driving with no license, or other illegal or suspicious behavior.

I was wondering if you could provide the name of the city who did the report and the case or report number? Thanks.
 
FWIW, California recently passed some enlightened laws regarding folding knives, including specific definitions. That might work as a source for material for arguing the vagueness of the NYS definition of gravity knife. Sufficient G-force will cause any spring or other flexible object to allow movement; so it would seem that the law should specify a number of G's, just as there is a specified level of BAC to constitute intoxication, or a certain quantity of speed in mph or kph to indicate a speed limit. In my part of Texas, any spring that resists the knife blade falling open is enough to make the knife legal, though this is not written anywhere I can find.
 
It is a Class D felony in NYS (Criminal Possession of a Weapon, 3rd) to possess a gravity knife if one has previously been convicted of any crime -- including misdemeanors. However, "gravity knife" has not been adequately defined.

It has, however, been determined that a balisong "butterfly knife" is NOT considered a gravity knife, dagger, or dirk in NYS, and as such is lawful to possess and carry concealed.

A folding lockblade would not be considered a "gravity knife" either, regardless of how loose the blade may be.

A true "gravity knife" is an "out the front" opener. If one points the knife at the ground and depresses a button, the literal force of gravity allows the blade to "fall out" and lock into position. There is a slit in one end of the handle for the blade to "fall" out of, and a large button on the edge of the handle near this hole. This is how the knife is designed to be opened -- it is not the result of a design flaw, excessive wear, or aftermarket modification.

Gravity knives are rarely seen, but because the law does not define what one is, many police officers ignorantly apply this definition to balisongs and any folding knife they can "flick" open by swinging their arm sharply. This is the result of inertia, not gravity.
 
TYR...As per NYS Penal Law 265.....a Gravity Knife does include Inertia as a method of opening. In NYS a lockback folder is a gravity knife at that point !!!! I agree with you that was not the intent or what you or I would considered a gravity knife, but that is the law. The federal law is even worst, as it does not say it must lock when opened !!!!

All due respect, I have made several arrest for the old 007 knives and other lockbacks that I could flick open in front of the ADA, and the law is clear that is a gravity knife. ( of course these arrest were based on a additional charge as I would not take someone for just having a knife)...read the law, it is sad but true.

There were several shops hit about five months ago by the NYPD and Consumer Affairs for selling illegal knives. The owners and some sales clerks where arrested and charged with the sale of gravity knives for having high end Bench mades and others. ( NON AUTOS) . The Officers actually went through their stock and for everyone that would flick open, there was an additional count added to their charges. I WISH your interpertation was true, but it is not.

For those of you who feel you will not be charged for simple possession, you are right in most cases, but if you ever used the knife as a weapon to legally defend yourself, the ADA involved will closely examine the knife and if it flicks open YOU WILL BE CHARGED and then if there are assualt or attempted murder charges filied you will be viewed as acting with an illegal weapon,,,not good!!!
 
tyr_shadowblade said:
A folding lockblade would not be considered a "gravity knife" either, regardless of how loose the blade may be.
Click to expand...

Given the definition taken from NY law regarding gravity knives, I would agree with tom19176 and disagree with you. Unless there is some case law out there that defines this further.

To understand Inertia and Centrifugal forces you would have to read Newton's Laws of Motion. Unfortunately, the law actually states "application of centrifugal force." At face value, I think the law would apply to a folding lockblade with a loose blade.
 
Catherine, send me a private email if you want to discuss. I have worked on a few of these cases, and obtained an expert affidavit in one of them.
 
If you want to contact her, I think this is her office information:

as of 03/31/2006
Registration Number: 2062321

CATHERINE B. WILDER
CATHERINE B. WILDER ESQ
Firm: State of New York, Supreme Court, 1st Judicial District

900 W 190TH ST APT 16C
NEW YORK NY 10040
(212) 740-9899

Address: Criminal Term
100 Centre St.
New York, NY 10013-4386
(212) 374-5717
(212) 374-5718
Fax: (212) 374-3177
(212) 401-9254

Year Admitted in NY: 1984
Appellate Division
Department of Admission: 2
Law School: THE OHIO STATE UNIV
Registration Status: Currently registered
Next Registration: Jun 2006
 
Im always curious about these cases. Is it more often that a person was carrying basically an illegal knife, and then tries to prove it legal, or that a person had a normal knife, and the cops misunderstadn it to be illegal?

After all, theres a big difference between a knife which has had its pivot loosened to a point where it swings freely, and the same knife being forced to open by a very fast flick of the wrist. The flick of the wrist can't be illegal, ans I have never seen a boxcutter that i couldnt flick and have the long razor extend from the handle.
 
Speaking from my experience, with Ohio law, the laws are vague on the bladed weapon issue. It's good and bad.

so it would seem that the law should specify a number of G's
Click to expand...

This would be very difficult to test in the field.
 
TikTock said:
After all, theres a big difference between a knife which has had its pivot loosened to a point where it swings freely, and the same knife being forced to open by a very fast flick of the wrist. The flick of the wrist can't be illegal, ans I have never seen a boxcutter that i couldnt flick and have the long razor extend from the handle.
Click to expand...
You're trying to apply logic to the law. You should know better. The two are mutually exclusive. :rolleyes:
 
TikTock.....I wish it was that pure and simple, but it is NOT....READ THE LAW...any knife that can be open by a stong flick of the wrist IS a Gravity knife !!!! It does not matter if it got that way by design, a user alteration, or normal wear.....If a LEO can flick it open in front of the ADA....your Guilty !!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top