Need opinions on Tops knives...

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WillieD

Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
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A buddy of mine turned me onto Tops knives. Seems they have a lot of variety but alot are made of 1095 and I have always thought of this a "cheap" steel. I don't know awhole lot about the different steels, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of 1095. They have some other steels on certain knives, but I am looking at the smaller fixed blades and they are in 1095. I have handles quite a few and they do have some REALLY nice stuff, but there are also a few that don't really feel right for me. The Screaming Eagle (154cm) is awesome, but I'm not looking for something that big... Yet:D Looking specifically at the Prairie Fox and Ferret now for my needs. Opinions anyone??? Thanks, Terry
 
1095 is cheap steel, but that doesn't mean it's bad steel. It's simple, high carbon steel, but it's tough and takes an edge, plus it's easy to work with. The coating on TOPS blades keeps the corrosion to a minimum, but the edge can be problematic because it rusts a bit and to resharpen you're going to mar the blade coating, which is okay unless you're me and you're anal about things like that. They come razor sharp. I liked all of mine, and I've owned the Prairie Fox. Great little knife.
 
i've got a street scalpel {1095} and i really like it. the thing is about 1/4" thick and can be used for a knife or a prybar. easy to sharpen and comes up very sharp. one of my favorite small fixed blade knives. later, ahgar
 
WillieD said:
...what are the advantages/disadvantages of 1095...
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The way TOP's harden it, there are little advantages, aside from the fact it is really cheap for them, the heat treatment they use is really unsuitable for that steel. If you find that you have to drop the hardness down that much on a steel it usually means you are better off by changing to an inherently tougher grade of steel which will allow a higher strength/toughness combination.

-Cliff
 
I just got a Bush Ranger, but it's 52100, however, I also have a Firestrike which seems pretty damn tough to me and it takes and hold a very nice edge.
Look around their web page, you will find something that will suit you.

Ciao
muzzleup
:thumbup:
 
Generally speaking, I find TOPS knives to be ok, but overpriced. Some of their designs are flat out goofy looking, IMHO. But, they are decent knives and work well, and are easy to sharpen.
 
I've often considered a Moccasin Ranger but the price point is a deal-breaker for me. For a little more or less than $200 I can get a knife in D2 steel made by the likes of Tom Krein, Gene Ingram or Bob Dozier. Every time I get that kind of money in hand, I can't resist getting the hand made knife.
 
TorzJohnson said:
I've often considered a Moccasin Ranger but the price point is a deal-breaker for me. For a little more or less than $200 I can get a knife in D2 steel made by the likes of Tom Krein, Gene Ingram or Bob Dozier. Every time I get that kind of money in hand, I can't resist getting the hand made knife.
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Stylewise, the Moccasin Ranger is my favorite TOPS knife, but I won't pay that much for a plain 1095 factory knife.
 
Danbo said:
Stylewise, the Moccasin Ranger is my favorite TOPS knife, but I won't pay that much for a plain 1095 factory knife.
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Bingo. If TOPS' prices were 75% of what they are at most dealers, I'd have half a dozen at least. As it stands, there are too many other manufacturers who offer similar materials at a much lower price point to justify the purchase.
 
the 1095 in my old timer stockman takes and holds an excellent edge. until I played around with it for a while I was never a fan of carbon steel. now I will be adding a few more carbon blades to my pile.

pete
 
Just to remind folks, TOPS are not FACTORY! They are handcrafted knifes, in a shop, with skilled knifemakers doing the work by hand. The only part they do mechanically is the laser or water jet cutting of the blanks. Why? It would be too time-consuming to cut each blank by hand. From what I understand, Randall knives has a very similar process as TOPS. Are Randalls considered factory? So, if you picture TOPS as an automated assembly line type plant, like the big knife companies, just wanted to let you know. No criticism here of folks who think TOPS is a factory, I can understand the perception: I think TOPS should spend more time describing how they produce knives, in order to eliminate misconceptions. Their knives have exquisite fit and finish.

The heat treat of their 1095 has yielded exceptional performance in the filed for me and most others' I know who use them. It's at about 58 Rc. I wouldn't consider that soft. Their heat-treat is excepetionally consistent. Also, some of their models go to Paul Bos for heat-treatment as well.

Cliff, what evidence do you have of how they heat-treat? Did you visit their shop? Your statement was vague, and you show no evidence of what you describe. Are yo also saying Paul Bos doesn't know how to heat-treat? That's like saying Bob Dozier doesn't know how to make a knife. oh, I forgot, you showed us in many threads, that you know way more than Dozier about knives and knifemaking. :jerkit:
 
I think they have a lot of great designs, but they've never really done a lot for me. I usually prefer edgeholding over toughness and for a lot of their smaller knives I'm still baffled why they use 1095? I understand on the large knives, easy to sharpen, really tough, decent edge holding. I would really go for a street scalpel in 154cm, or just about any other stainless, especially for a knife that small that can be carried all the time.
 
beefangunbeef,
My Bush Ranger is 52100 which is just short of 5". I have on order a Pasayten which is 154CM and I think the blade is between 4" and 5" (I don't remember for sure).

If you look closly on their web page you will see that several of their models are not made of 1095 steel.

I don't know why so many people seem to think that 1095 is some kind of junk steel because it is cheaper to buy. It is a very good knife steel and if I am not wrong, I think that a lot of the KA-BAR knives were made of 1095 and there are still a bunch of them around and with razor edges too.

Oh well, to each his own!
Ciao
muzzleup
:jerkit:
 
Brian Jones said:
Cliff, what evidence do you have of how they heat-treat?
Click to expand...

The hardness, use the relevant materials data, specifically look at the torsional responce to tempering in that range, I have listed this several times before as well explained why underhardening such steels is in general problematic for several reasons and when you are in that range of hardness, bainite is generally superior to martensite as the toughness is vastly higher, materials references for all of this has been provided in detail on rec.knives, Allen's book is a good place to start.

I have of course also actually used a TOPs knife, it isn't all just based on the facts of the materials data, and it was vastly outperformed by other knives, including ones which are significantly less expensive. I have also used 1095 knives were are heat treated to maximize the responce of the torsional data as have others who have discussed the performance in detail on rec.knives as well as other steels far more suitable for high impact work.

Alvin Johnston is discussing steels for that class of knife now on rec.knives and the discussion is centered strongly on heat treating based on actual factual materials data as well as testing he has done, flexing mainly to date, you may want to check out the commentary and read the revelent cited materials text to understand the critisms about using that steel for those types of knives at that hardness.

As for Bos, his heat treatment of ATS-34 was critized by other makers like Mayer who had actual materials data to support his arguement, discussed in detail on rec.knives. Jim March was the focus point of that discussion for awhile as he had customs made in the steel and got involved with conflicts among the heat treaters on how to proceed. The vast majority of heat treating now of that type of stainless has switched away from what Bos was doing to the style Mayer proposed which specifically is low temperature tempering to avoid the problems with corrosion resistance and loss of impact toughness in the secondary hardening.

As for all the "hand work" TOP's does consider :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3335969&postcount=5

and the fact that Swamp Rat will adjust edge angles on user request, their blades are cheaper than TOP's, also have "hand work" done on them, have a more comprehensive warrenty, use a more complex steel and run a differential hardening.

-Cliff
 
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