Recommendation? Need recomendations/advice on which sharpener for otf and double sided blades

R

Robdnor

Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
8
Hey everyone. I know that sharpeners have been discussed on here ad nauseum, but, I have a couple of specific questions that will help me to determine what system will be best for my needs. I have a lansky deluxe guided system, but want to upgrade since I keep delving deeper into this hobby we share.


I am currently entertaining all the options (Edge pro, Wicked Edge, TSProf, KME, etc). However, I am leaning heavily towards a edge pro, tsprof or wicked edge.


I currently have 3 microtech ultratechs with the standard double edge (I know 2 are elmax, not sure about the oldest one), an ultratech with the spartan blade (elmax) , an ultratech with the tanto blade (elmax), 2 utx 85s with a single blade (elmax and m390), a microtech Ludt (m390), a piranha bodyguard (s30v) and a couple ak74s (in xhp). I also have a few kershaws in sandvik, the general assortment of lower end gerbers and crkts, and some no names. There are also kitchen knives, mostly berndes and henkel, though I keep entertaining ordering some japanese blades, even if just a shun. So obviously a variety of steels and at least *TO ME high end knives (though I know these are low end for a lot of y’all). I do carry and use my knives, so keeping a good edge and not spending excessive amounts of time is important to me.


I’m not particularly interested in the worksharps/grinders/power sharpeners, because I don’t want to risk a slight slip causing potentially monumental damage to my tools. I may pick one up for my machetes and axes, but, not for my ‘nice’ knives. I do realize that the Edge pro or the TSProf could probably sharpen these too, but, I am willing to go the grinder route for 'yard tools’ if the wicked edge would be a better option for my intended/stated usage.


So along to my questions. Relating to a ultratech (any otf), what would be the best sharpener to use? I am concerned about whether the ‘slurry’ that I have read about with using an edge pro would create issues or ‘gum/grit’ up the knife? Could I just stick the blade through old bicycle inner tube to prevent this mess from getting into the action? Another concern, which makes me leary of the standard EP stones, is the mess could also potentially wreak havoc on the painted blades in 5 of my ultratechs.


Would a clamp system such as the wicked edge or tsprof be better? Would attempting to clamp it cause damage to the side that isn’t currently being sharpened when maintaining a double edge blade?The ultratechs do have a small flat portion in the center line of the blade, I figure that could potentially work for the clamp, but not sure if the other side of the blade would be freely suspended or if it would make contact in the clamp, potentially causing burrs or nicks/chips as a result. In particular, would using the wicked edge diamond stones create less potential of gumming the action?


For sharpening a double sided tanto (microtech spartan blade) would a clamping system be more or less onerous? Would I stand a greater risk of reducing the tip angle if using something like the edge pro where I would have to maintain a certain hold? Would the tanto/ 2x tanto be able to be clamped into place and sharpened with greater precision on something like the wicked edge? Also, what would be the best recommendation for sharpening the standard double edge profile?


Based on the choices of systems, I hope it is apparent I prefer to get the best I can to last a lifetime and suffice for the possible addition of even nicer blades (only 29 y/o currently and just finished law school). I am not opposed to getting a tsprof it is the best for my circumstances, but I do appreciate the EP and WE being American made.This is both for support and in case I need any parts. I do realize the TSProf now has a US distributor, but, looking at the website, it seems that there is still the potential for a substantial wait as I noticed a lot is backorderable. I will also say, I may be able to save some money if I go the WE route (I have an opportunity to get one and save money on it from .. let’s say, a friend who may have a new ‘extra’ that isn’t needed)


If I go EP, I’m leaning towards the apex (pro pack 4), but am not opposed to the pro. If TSProf, looking into the 2. If I go for the WE it will probably be the 130, and add the 800/1000 diamonds, the 1200/1600 super fine ceramics, and possibly even the micro fine cermics, and/or a strop (probably the 1/.5 if I go with the micro fine ceramics).


I will probably end up playing with some ultra polished edges if possible, but, really just want my blades to be sharp enough to shave facial hair/ tree top arm hair at best, and realistically, I have made due with the lansky ultra fine stone.


At this point, I am somewhat confused on which to choose and if this actually made sense. I do like the lower cost of the EP apex, but feel I can get the best deal on the WE, and not really sure about the TSProf, other than some on here seem to think its miraculous. Really though, it boils down to what will sharpen the best for my particular needs, will protect the finishes on the blades *if possible, will allow me to get the desired results without using too much time, will withstand the test of time, and will overall help me protect my investments while having the ability to keep them in top working order?


Thanks !
 
Just a thought, I won't run down guided systems, they have a place too, but since you're at a decision point: Why not consider learning a new skill, learn to freehand sharpen by putting metal to stone manually, the way our ancestors did?

It's a live alternative, and I faced this decision myself in the last year, whether to get into a fancy guided system, or to invest the time/effort to get better at freehand sharpening. I went the latter route, and glad I did.

Some reasons I'm glad I dug in to get proficient at freehanding:

* It's rewarding. It's fun to learn an old world skill and enjoyable to put a quality edge on a blade.
* It's simple. To sharpen, you just grab a knife and a stone. Not so much stuff to buy, set up, tear down, and maintain.
* It gives total flexibility. You can choose any abrasive of any type you want, and you can sharpen any blade at any angle you want. Obviously the catch is it takes some practice.
* It's portable. Because you're not dependent on a machine, you can sharpen anywhere, anytime, using any stone or abrasive.
* It's cost effective. Your initial startup cost is much lower, all you need to start is 2 or 3 stones or diamond plates, a stone holder, a strop such as a wood block, and some compound, and you're ready to go. Also, note that the stones/abrasives you use for freehanding are more cost effective. The stones on sharpening devices are typically very small and expensive. A large bench stone is not only more efficient to sharpen faster, it is usually cheaper per square inch of usable sharpening area, and therefore more cost effective.

If you invest the time to practice, you may find freehanding really enjoyable as I did. If you don't, all you're out is a few hours and a small investment for the sharpening stones, and you can still try a guided system.

This is all stuff that I wish somebody would've explained to me about 20 years ago, I would've invested more time THEN to get better at freehanding, rather than puttering along being really mediocre at freehanding, or using various devices like Sharpmaker.
 
maximus83 said:
Just a thought, I won't run down guided systems, they have a place too, but since you're at a decision point: Why not consider learning a new skill, learn to freehand sharpen by putting metal to stone manually, the way our ancestors did?

It's a live alternative, and I faced this decision myself in the last year, whether to get into a fancy guided system, or to invest the time/effort to get better at freehand sharpening. I went the latter route, and glad I did.

Some reasons I'm glad I dug in to get proficient at freehanding:

* It's rewarding. It's fun to learn an old world skill and enjoyable to put a quality edge on a blade.
* It's simple. To sharpen, you just grab a knife and a stone. Not so much stuff to buy, set up, tear down, and maintain.
* It gives total flexibility. You can choose any abrasive of any type you want, and you can sharpen any blade at any angle you want. Obviously the catch is it takes some practice.
* It's portable. Because you're not dependent on a machine, you can sharpen anywhere, anytime, using any stone or abrasive.
* It's cost effective. Your initial startup cost is much lower, all you need to start is 2 or 3 stones or diamond plates, a stone holder, a strop such as a wood block, and some compound, and you're ready to go. Also, note that the stones/abrasives you use for freehanding are more cost effective. The stones on sharpening devices are typically very small and expensive. A large bench stone is not only more efficient to sharpen faster, it is usually cheaper per square inch of usable sharpening area, and therefore more cost effective.

If you invest the time to practice, you may find freehanding really enjoyable as I did. If you don't, all you're out is a few hours and a small investment for the sharpening stones, and you can still try a guided system.

This is all stuff that I wish somebody would've explained to me about 20 years ago, I would've invested more time THEN to get better at freehanding, rather than puttering along being really mediocre at freehanding, or using various devices like Sharpmaker.
Click to expand...
Amen
But then I'm a guy who still uses a hand powered grinder
 
Something I have learned when sharpening double edge blades is to not expect much. The blade geometry is typically very bad and this simply makes sharpening very difficult even in the most skilled hands.

I'm all about hand sharpening but if you can get a guided system to work with the blade profile then I would probably go that route.
 
I have used my TSPROF K-02 to sharpen my double edged Microtech Troodon with great results. I would not attempt to do this knife freehand. With all the accessories available for the tsprof k2 and all the stones that can be used with it, it is a very adaptable sharpener and has given me results better than I had hoped for.
 
I appreciate the responses so far.


Maximus83- thank you for your thoughtful response, free hand definitely wins in portability, true skill development, and long term emergencies, for sure!


As to freehand, I used to be pretty good as a kid, I can still do it, but tend to focus that effort on my axes/machetes/ and larger fixed blades.

I’m not too confident that I’m skilled enough to get the double edge and other otf blades freehand, and part of that is the blade being small and twice as likely to cut me in the process


That’s what I’ve been afraid of Jason B, is your experience with the double edge blades hand sharpening then? Or did you use a system?


Thanks for the firsthand experience hytekredneck


Hopefully some more people with some experience sharpening doubled sided and other otf knives on a guided system can chime in
 
Your welcome. Just take your time, especially up front around the tip. There are 4 bevels coming to a point, so I go slow and try to keep the everything symmetrical. I will probably get faster with these type blades eventually, but only having 2 nice knives and a couple cheap-o knives with the double edge blades, it will take a while to get much experience.
Single edge blades are a piece of cake with the TSPROF K02.
 
I do suggest getting 1 or 2 cheap double edged knives so you can learn and practice on them without the risk of messing up your quality knives.
 
Robdnor said:
Hey everyone. I know that sharpeners have been discussed on here ad nauseum, but, I have a couple of specific questions that will help me to determine what system will be best for my needs. I have a lansky deluxe guided system, but want to upgrade since I keep delving deeper into this hobby we share.


I am currently entertaining all the options (Edge pro, Wicked Edge, TSProf, KME, etc). However, I am leaning heavily towards a edge pro, tsprof or wicked edge.


I currently have 3 microtech ultratechs with the standard double edge (I know 2 are elmax, not sure about the oldest one), an ultratech with the spartan blade (elmax) , an ultratech with the tanto blade (elmax), 2 utx 85s with a single blade (elmax and m390), a microtech Ludt (m390), a piranha bodyguard (s30v) and a couple ak74s (in xhp). I also have a few kershaws in sandvik, the general assortment of lower end gerbers and crkts, and some no names. There are also kitchen knives, mostly berndes and henkel, though I keep entertaining ordering some japanese blades, even if just a shun. So obviously a variety of steels and at least *TO ME high end knives (though I know these are low end for a lot of y’all). I do carry and use my knives, so keeping a good edge and not spending excessive amounts of time is important to me.


I’m not particularly interested in the worksharps/grinders/power sharpeners, because I don’t want to risk a slight slip causing potentially monumental damage to my tools. I may pick one up for my machetes and axes, but, not for my ‘nice’ knives. I do realize that the Edge pro or the TSProf could probably sharpen these too, but, I am willing to go the grinder route for 'yard tools’ if the wicked edge would be a better option for my intended/stated usage.


So along to my questions. Relating to a ultratech (any otf), what would be the best sharpener to use? I am concerned about whether the ‘slurry’ that I have read about with using an edge pro would create issues or ‘gum/grit’ up the knife? Could I just stick the blade through old bicycle inner tube to prevent this mess from getting into the action? Another concern, which makes me leary of the standard EP stones, is the mess could also potentially wreak havoc on the painted blades in 5 of my ultratechs.


Would a clamp system such as the wicked edge or tsprof be better? Would attempting to clamp it cause damage to the side that isn’t currently being sharpened when maintaining a double edge blade?The ultratechs do have a small flat portion in the center line of the blade, I figure that could potentially work for the clamp, but not sure if the other side of the blade would be freely suspended or if it would make contact in the clamp, potentially causing burrs or nicks/chips as a result. In particular, would using the wicked edge diamond stones create less potential of gumming the action?


For sharpening a double sided tanto (microtech spartan blade) would a clamping system be more or less onerous? Would I stand a greater risk of reducing the tip angle if using something like the edge pro where I would have to maintain a certain hold? Would the tanto/ 2x tanto be able to be clamped into place and sharpened with greater precision on something like the wicked edge? Also, what would be the best recommendation for sharpening the standard double edge profile?


Based on the choices of systems, I hope it is apparent I prefer to get the best I can to last a lifetime and suffice for the possible addition of even nicer blades (only 29 y/o currently and just finished law school). I am not opposed to getting a tsprof it is the best for my circumstances, but I do appreciate the EP and WE being American made.This is both for support and in case I need any parts. I do realize the TSProf now has a US distributor, but, looking at the website, it seems that there is still the potential for a substantial wait as I noticed a lot is backorderable. I will also say, I may be able to save some money if I go the WE route (I have an opportunity to get one and save money on it from .. let’s say, a friend who may have a new ‘extra’ that isn’t needed)


If I go EP, I’m leaning towards the apex (pro pack 4), but am not opposed to the pro. If TSProf, looking into the 2. If I go for the WE it will probably be the 130, and add the 800/1000 diamonds, the 1200/1600 super fine ceramics, and possibly even the micro fine cermics, and/or a strop (probably the 1/.5 if I go with the micro fine ceramics).


I will probably end up playing with some ultra polished edges if possible, but, really just want my blades to be sharp enough to shave facial hair/ tree top arm hair at best, and realistically, I have made due with the lansky ultra fine stone.


At this point, I am somewhat confused on which to choose and if this actually made sense. I do like the lower cost of the EP apex, but feel I can get the best deal on the WE, and not really sure about the TSProf, other than some on here seem to think its miraculous. Really though, it boils down to what will sharpen the best for my particular needs, will protect the finishes on the blades *if possible, will allow me to get the desired results without using too much time, will withstand the test of time, and will overall help me protect my investments while having the ability to keep them in top working order?


Thanks !
Click to expand...

Forgive me, I didn't read your entire wall of text, but I'll chime-in in hopes of helping out.

This edge was done with a TSProf K02 system:

IMG_20170702_185217_430.jpg


Double edged blades are a pain. Always. But this does make it easier.

I won't recommend the system outright though. They shipped mine over a month late, it arrived broken and the stones fell apart. Immediately. I had to file a PayPal claim to get my money back on the stones. They wanted me to return them before they'd give me the refund, despite the fact that return shipping to Russia would cost me about the price of the stones.

I was able to fix the system obviously and it now it works great with the addition of some Shapton stones. I make my own balsa strops.

You might be safer with the system now that we have a stateside distributor, but my experience with the company wasn't great. It is a good product though.

The Wicked Edge is also great and their CS is fantastic. I, with a shoulder injury, prefer the horizontal layout of the K02 though.
 
Also, be careful not to let slurry drip down into the mechanism. I can't say that I've heard a firsthand account of Microtech refusing warranty service due to sharpening by a customer, but they do have a clause written into their warranty stating that it can be voided by sharpening.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far, hope it will keep coming


I do have a couple of cheap gun show special otf/scarab clones that I can practice on


Hytekrednek & T.L.E. sharp- when clamping are y’all just setting the clamp onto the small ‘flat’ that occurs along the sides of the ‘blood groove’/fuller, or have you found that taping or putting between pieces of material such as leather to be necessary?


T.L.E. Sharp- yes a wall of text, having just completed school I’m still in the over detailed stage

-

I have noticed that there have been a number of CS issue when researching the TSProf, that’s why I am a bit leary of it in comparison to the american based alternatives, unless it is truly that much better

-

I have read about the ‘improper sharpening’ clause of their warranty and the faqs on the website. I’m not too concerned about that. Since a knife is a tool that is intended to be sharpened, I’m not sure quite how well that would stand to legal dispute when cutting and sharpening are intended and reasonably foreseeable uses. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a CY* in case of belt grinder mishaps or the slurry getting into the action like you mentioned.


-? In terms of the slurry, based on your experience, would poking the blade through old inner tube help prevent it from entering the action?



I am under the impression diamond stones will not create the degree of slurry that occurs with waterstones. In the past, I have always soaked water stones but used diamonds dry.. so with the otfs, thinking a system with diamonds may be the least hassle?


Hopefully those with experiences on other sharpeners can provide some insights in order that I may make a better informed decision


Thanks
 
I just used the central flat area with a strip of tape covering all but the edge area. I masked off the entrance to the handle the best I could to keep grit out. It took some adjusting to get the blade set just right in the clamp, but it was not to hard.

I love the Troodon, but I really want the combat Troodon with the Bowie type blade. Sadly, they are sold out everywhere and I have not been able to locate one. Sweet blades for sure.
 
Just realized I had never followed up.

I ended up buying a WEPS field and sport pro, a set of the extra fine ceramics and a 5/3.5 strop (Christmas present from me- to me)

I haven’t gained enough experience with the system to attempt a double edge as of yet, though I hope to soon, as my kitchen knives and folders have been sharpened to a better edge than most came with when new. Though at this point, I am using the sharpie method, I have been considering an angle cube, as I noticed a couple of my inexpensive knives have uneven grinds, and my ocd kicks in, though they all cut now!

I even managed to take a 7” dollar tree santoku and sharpen it to the point of being a viable tool in my knife block

It’s a beast of a system, and even a chef friend who is a hand sharpener has watched me use the system and mentioned when he gets his personal knives back (still on the yacht his contract just ended with) he wants to test the system and see if it would be a better option for himself and his high end chef’s knives

While I haven’t used the system enough to provide an in-depth review, I will do my best to truly evaluate it over the next few months so I can report back

In case anyone is wondering or if someone finds this thread when searching the weps and double sided blades/otfs, here is a message I sent to Wicked Edge (green), and their response (blue)

——

Having done extensive research between your product, edge pro and the Russian TSProf systems, I have found your system most desirable; however I have a couple of particular questions about sharpening with your system in order to determine if it is the most appropriate system for my needs.

I would like to inquire as to whether a wicked edge field and sport pro kit with your 130 clamp system would be suitable for sharpening double sided blade profiles ? I have asked on ‪Bladeforums.com, but did not receive a definitive answer. I have multiple Microtech ultratech double edge dagger style blades and one of the ultratech double sided tanto (‘spartan’ profile). Would the clamping system be able to hold the blade either following the contours of the blade, or via gripping the small flat in the center portions of the side of the blade? Alternatively, would setting the alternate side (edge not currently being sharpened) in a piece of folded leather or bicycle inner tube provide protection for the edge not currently being sharpened?

From watching videos and looking at tutorials and forum threads, I have come to an impression that your system is less apt to create as much dust/debris/slurry while using the system, which is a concern to me as I usually use automatic and otf knives and am trying to reduce the risk of fouling the internal mechanisms. When sharpening an otf such as an ultratech, will there be much excess material that can ingress into the knife body. If so, would slide the blade through a piece of bicycle inner tube or cling wrap help to prevent any mess from reaching the internals?

Additionally, having used a lansky system up to a 1000 grit.. would I realize a notable improvement if I were to add a set of the wicked edge ultra fine ceramics, or a strop?

I greatly appreciate any feedback you can shed light onto my questions.

Thanks,
-Robert
——
Hi Robert,
Thank you for writing. The WE130 clamp system, which we call the Cam-Lock Vise, will grip double edge knives if there is a flat spot to clamp to in the middle, like you described on your microtechs. I definitely recommend wrapping a thin piece of leather around the bottom of the blade when you clamp it, just to keep it protected and provide a little more stability while you're sharpening.

Though there's less material dust present than when you sharpen with other systems, I do think it's always beneficial to keep your knives protected, so I think a bicycle inner tube would be a great solution to keep debris from entering and damaging the internal mechanism.

You'll definitely notice an improvement with the addition of the ceramic stones or strops. They will reduce the number of micro "teeth" on the edge, which will make for a more crisp cutting edge.

For the sharpening needs you described, I think you're on the exact right track with the Field and Sport Pro or WE130 sharpener.

Best regards,

Kyle Kaplan
Wicked Edge
——
Hopefully this information will be beneficial to others here who may be considering which sharpener to get, and may find themselves in a similar dilemma regarding which sharpener will suite their personal needs
(Edited for spacing/typo)
 
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If you haven't already seen it... Tormek's "Small Knife Holder" (SVM-00) may be a good way to hold some of the blades on the W.E that you're interested in sharpening... here's an example...

IMG-0412.jpg
 
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