Need some info on spring steel for an impact weapon

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psycho78

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Jun 17, 2006
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I've been making sheaths longer than I have made knives, and was recently approached to make a flat Bucheimer type sap for a fellow officer.

I have modeled his sap directly after my old Bucheimer Denver, and it has a piece of really whippy steel in the handle. This is a flat piece of spring steel as opposed to a coil that the old blackjacks have.

I was wondering where I could get a piece of steel that has the same qualities, or how I could make one.

I was thinking about using an old saw blade or something as they seem very springy.

Any help would be appreciated. :)
 
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Probably something like very thin 15N20 would work for you. It's always been very flexible for me. Only issue I've had is with it twisting, seems to like to twist if you look at it funny during heat treating, probably be fixed with a few good normalizing cycles and a good oil. Haven't used any in quite a long time.

Not sure where to temper it at to get your desired flex maybe 600-700F? You might get lucky and have enough spring in it out of the box.
 
Thanks acrid.:thumbup:

I'm not really that schooled in heat treating of any material. I always send my stuff out for HT. I kinda want to take back the "how to make one" part of my original post.

I wanna get this thing to him asap (a sap....lol) and I'd probably be better off just finding a piece already springy before I burnt my house down. :p

The 15n20 sounds good. I think Tracy has some on his site that's pretty readily available.
 
McMaster Carr and other suppliers sell prehardened/tempered spring steel strip in 10xx and SS. That is the route I would take ;-)
 
Dunno, never having made a sap. I knew about the spring steel strip from using it in projects at work.

I think I would just copy whap is in your existing one as a starting point.
 
ernestrome said:
Can officers legally carry such weapons in Kentucky?
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I'd have to do some research, but I think it depends on the department if an officer can carry a sap on duty. I'm going to assume that a LEO can carry one off duty.

I'm a court official, so I am on special status for CCDW license. I carry mine, and have never had any issues.
 
stevomiller said:
Dunno, never having made a sap. I knew about the spring steel strip from using it in projects at work.

I think I would just copy whap is in your existing one as a starting point.
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The ones that I have are some really old Bucheimers. I wouldn't want to take them apart. Hard to judge the thickness from that fat handle they have.
 
That wide Black Banding that they use in shipping pallated objects. That is "usually" 10xx series high carbon spring and makes a really "whippy" object!

Jason
 
I carried a sap for years, used it often until Mace came along, (I was the first LEO in Colorado to buy a can). For my sap I used a piece of a heavy duty hack saw blade, never failed.
 
JasonSCarter said:
That wide Black Banding that they use in shipping pallated objects. That is "usually" 10xx series high carbon spring and makes a really "whippy" object!

Jason
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+1 - pallet banding was my first thought, too.
you can find it in 1.25-1.5" wide stock sometimes and it would work great in conjunction with some sand or lead shot sewn between layers of thin leather.
If you can't find that, industrial bandsaw blades with the teeth ground off would work pretty well.
 
Thanks Ed! Big fan of your knives and books by the way.

I think I'll go lookin in the hardware stores to test a few out.
 
Ed Fowler said:
I carried a sap for years, used it often until Mace came along, (I was the first LEO in Colorado to buy a can). For my sap I used a piece of a heavy duty hack saw blade, never failed.
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I'm surprised it wasn't a piece of 52100. :)
 
It was pretty easy, like 100vk said, just grind most of the teeth off, build a mold for the shape of lead you want, heat the lead, pour it into the mold sink the saw blade with the remaining teeth into the lead, let it cool and you are set.

The sap I carried was about 7 inches long, I could palm it where it was not visible and swack. An old NYPD officer taught me how to use one "discretely". If done correctly it does not take much of a blow and I only needed about one minute until they were handcuffed and about ready to walk to the patrol car. Very few knew the sap was used.

I wonder if this art is still taught or even considered by the LEO of today?
 
Danbo said:
It's Kentucky; pretty sure they/we can carry a frikkin flame thrower, if need be. :p:D
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I've carried everything...lol

In school most of the guys carried knives of all sorts, and the teachers etc pretty much accepted it because they knew that we all worked on farms and stuff. There have been many times where I lent a knife to a teacher for something.

The cool thing about Kentucky is that automatics are legal here (if not concealed). They have a store in the middle of the aisle in the Fayette mall in Lexington that always has a section of microtech, protech and other high end autos.
 
Ed Fowler said:
It was pretty easy, like 100vk said, just grind most of the teeth off, build a mold for the shape of lead you want, heat the lead, pour it into the mold sink the saw blade with the remaining teeth into the lead, let it cool and you are set.

The sap I carried was about 7 inches long, I could palm it where it was not visible and swack. An old NYPD officer taught me how to use one "discretely". If done correctly it does not take much of a blow and I only needed about one minute until they were handcuffed and about ready to walk to the patrol car. Very few knew the sap was used.

I wonder if this art is still taught or even considered by the LEO of today?
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http://www.donrearic.com/sap.html

Cool article I found when this thread first came up, covers the uh, art, of their use :eek: and alludes to some of the reason why their not so common: because misuse led to banning in many departments.
 
Ed Fowler said:
It was pretty easy, like 100vk said, just grind most of the teeth off, build a mold for the shape of lead you want, heat the lead, pour it into the mold sink the saw blade with the remaining teeth into the lead, let it cool and you are set.

The sap I carried was about 7 inches long, I could palm it where it was not visible and swack. An old NYPD officer taught me how to use one "discretely". If done correctly it does not take much of a blow and I only needed about one minute until they were handcuffed and about ready to walk to the patrol car. Very few knew the sap was used.

I wonder if this art is still taught or even considered by the LEO of today?
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The saw blade seems like it's going to work just fine.

My Bucheimer Denver is about that long, and I would not want to be on the other end of it. I've given myself a few light whacks with it on my palm,thigh etc, and I can't imagine getting hit full on with one of these.

The officers I've talked to who even know what they are seem to really like them and want one, but I think that they have been replaced by the big ASP baton, or just a big ol heavy maglite. I've read on some websites about saps and blackjacks that they are frowned upon by some departments and have been discontinued. I'm guessing a LEO could carry one with permission from his/her dept.

Speaking of discrete. I've seen some finger/palm saps that were pretty slick.
 
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