*Need Some Opinions/Feedback!*

DrOpPoInT1110

DrOpPoInT1110

Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
2,687
For those of you who aren't aware, I am studying industrial design in college. My current project is to pick one of my favorite/ most utilized products and then describe (pictures, words and sketches) why I like it and what I think can be improved about it- if anything. It shouldn't be a surprise that I chose my XM-18. One of the things we are allowed (and suggested) to do is survey other users of the same or similar product. That's where you guys come in. :D I have a general idea of what I will touch upon and I have a feeling it will be pretty similar to the general consensus, but I'd like to know specifically why YOU guys love your Hinderer(s) so much. Is it the ergo's, looks, operation/function or something else? It can be anything at all. Rick (or Rob if you know) if you could tell me some of your design intent that went into the design of the XM series, it would be GREATLY appreciated. The part that I've been having a LOT of trouble with is finding some aspect of the XM design that could be improved. Is there anything you would do differently if you were to "revise" the XM?...besides the proto folder of course. ;) If anybody else has suggestions, I'm all ears! I'm really looking forward to what all of you have to say!
 
Maybe a laser could be attached to the inner frame and point where the cut will be placed when you're using the knife so we can cut in straight lines like them fancy scissors :P
 
The positives far out way the possible negatives of the design. They fit well in the hand and for such a robust knife are easy to deploy and use.

As for a negative, well most negatives come from personal preference. And the brand addresses these. For example the flipper / non-flipper preference or the Spanto / Slicer options.
 
I love the way it sits in the hand, and the way that it seems to be "over built" but not...if you know what I mean. The only (selfish) improvement I can think of would be to tap and drill the G10/liner side for lefty tip up/down carry.
 
That's an "acceptable negative" that applies to several makers.

Save a few makers's designs, left-handed variants are not abundant. So "lefties" have to adapt and overcome. I know as a right-dominant, that I do spend some time with off-hand drills for the sake of "what if".

But if I were left-dominant, the right-handed only knives in the market could potentially get less consideration for EDC over a model with a left-handed variant.
 
N2K, I completely agree. The lefty idea is good Steve- keep em' coming! The ONE thing I can think of as a minor (very minor) improvement would be to use a bushing (or some other solution) so that you wouldn't have to tweak the centering and blade tension after reassembly. Like I said though, its really a very small thing.
 
No matter what parts and pieces you add or alter, if you take this or most things apart....you have to fit every piece back together. It's the way of things, especially those with moving parts. Applies way beyond folding knives.
 
DrOpPoInT1110 said:
N2K, I completely agree. The lefty idea is good Steve- keep em' coming! The ONE thing I can think of as a minor (very minor) improvement would be to use a bushing (or some other solution) so that you wouldn't have to tweak the centering and blade tension after reassembly. Like I said though, its really a very small thing.
Click to expand...

I've thought about that alot. And I'm no engineer but I can't seem to figure out a way to to make the knife centered and smooth opening for cheap. I have a few ideas that I think might work but they might add hundreds of dollars to the price of each knife.
 
Capbyrd said:
I've thought about that alot. And I'm no engineer but I can't seem to figure out a way to to make the knife centered and smooth opening for cheap.
Click to expand...

Really?!? All of my XMs are centered and open smmoooothhhh, all that is needed is proper pivot adjustment and some lube.
 
You misunderstood and I didn't explain it well.

I'm talking about during the manufacturing process, a design that would allow the knife to always be centered and smooth regardless of pivot adjustment. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation where you could disassemble the knife and put it back together without concern for centered blades and still end up with the knife being perfect.
 
X2. I have Five(5) and every one is dead center and smooth like butter. When Brand New, they take very little time to break-in and join the rest of the gang.
To the Op, I think it is integral to your project write-up to point out the mission oriented design of the knife. Intended for Failure Proof Hard Use at a time when no delay or concern for the tool is feasible therefor every aspect has to be designed and engineered to that end.
A possible inclusion of a design aspect that could compromise that, simply isn't worth the risk.
In my years of researching the Hinderer Brand I have talked to and read accounts of First Responders that could not get to their equipment or were off-duty but still duty bound to respond that grabbed their XM and cut through car doors, smashed windows and cut belts, cut heavy boots off of victims etc.
While we have touched on blade deployment and centering (which for the most part are non-issues or easily correctable issues) the bigger point is the absolute functionality of the design.
Tough job to suggest improvements. Good Luck.
 
Capbyrd said:
You misunderstood and I didn't explain it well.

I'm talking about during the manufacturing process, a design that would allow the knife to always be centered and smooth regardless of pivot adjustment. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation where you could disassemble the knife and put it back together without concern for centered blades and still end up with the knife being perfect.
Click to expand...

But then it is not adjustable and you have added additional part(s). Simple and adjustable is my preference.

By the way, what you are suggesting is relatively easy, other manufacturers do it with a bushing. But tolerances have to be very high for it to work well and it introduces a new area for dirt and crud to collect and it isn't as easily rinsed out in the field.
 
Need2Know said:
No matter what parts and pieces you add or alter, if you take this or most things apart....you have to fit every piece back together. It's the way of things, especially those with moving parts. Applies way beyond folding knives.
Click to expand...
That is true but (hate to bring it into this) but I find the Sebenza bushing system to be pretty effective to get that result. Simply tightening down the pivot screw all the way gets you the perfect tension/centering. That's how mine was at least.
RubiconSS said:
X2. I have Five(5) and every one is dead center and smooth like butter. When Brand New, they take very little time to break-in and join the rest of the gang.
To the Op, I think it is integral to your project write-up to point out the mission oriented design of the knife. Intended for Failure Proof Hard Use at a time when no delay or concern for the tool is feasible therefor every aspect has to be designed and engineered to that end.
A possible inclusion of a design aspect that could compromise that, simply isn't worth the risk.
In my years of researching the Hinderer Brand I have talked to and read accounts of First Responders that could not get to their equipment or were off-duty but still duty bound to respond that grabbed their XM and cut through car doors, smashed windows and cut belts, cut heavy boots off of victims etc.
While we have touched on blade deployment and centering (which for the most part are non-issues or easily correctable issues) the bigger point is the absolute functionality of the design.
Tough job to suggest improvements. Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Rubi, we are supposed to talk about the intended application/use of the product so I will definitely be mentioning it. I think the way you worded it is spot on.
The centering and deployment aren't design issues so I'll only be including those further down the line if I even decide to incorporate some sort of bushing system (although as I've thought about it, I don't think I will). It definitely will be a challenge finding something to improve without compromising other aspects of the design.
 
RDA said:
But then it is not adjustable and you have added additional part(s). Simple and adjustable is my preference.

By the way, what you are suggesting is relatively easy, other manufacturers do it with a bushing. But tolerances have to be very high for it to work well and it introduces a new area for dirt and crud to collect and it isn't as easily rinsed out in the field.
Click to expand...

But I'm not talking about adding parts. I'm talking about redesigning KNIVES as a whole. A whole new way to do this. But I'm not an engineer. And my brain can see a possibility but like i said, it would add tons of machining time, and be difficult. This wasn't something that I thought about for Hinderer specifically. This was something that I thought about from the time I took my first folder apart.

I still don't think you are understanding me and I'm not a wordsmith. I don't know how to more clearly explain my thoughts and thought process.
 
Just adding to your data pool. What I love about my XM-18s is 1) Confidence that the knife is built to handle extreme situations if needed; 2) The simplicity of it's design and that I can dismantle it and put it back together myself; 3) ergonomics - feels great in my hand and is very secure - balance feels right; 4) The look - the shape of the blade and the handle is just very appealing to me. There are many knives that I consider downright ugly but the Hinderer knives appeal to my personal taste. Do I have any suggestions in design? No. Do I have any suggestions overall? How about just making more of them so they aren't so expensive to the regular guy, like me. I've often wondered how CRK is able to flood the market with very high quality knives which cost about the same the produce (that's an assumption based on the retail price of the knives in comparison) but RH does not.
 
Maprik said:
Just adding to your data pool. What I love about my XM-18s is 1) Confidence that the knife is built to handle extreme situations if needed; 2) The simplicity of it's design and that I can dismantle it and put it back together myself; 3) ergonomics - feels great in my hand and is very secure - balance feels right; 4) The look - the shape of the blade and the handle is just very appealing to me. There are many knives that I consider downright ugly but the Hinderer knives appeal to my personal taste. Do I have any suggestions in design? No. Do I have any suggestions overall? How about just making more of them so they aren't so expensive to the regular guy, like me. I've often wondered how CRK is able to flood the market with very high quality knives which cost about the same the produce (that's an assumption based on the retail price of the knives in comparison) but RH does not.
Click to expand...

If there was a design solution to that, I'd gladly work on it! :D Thanks for your input.
 
Maprik said:
Do I have any suggestions overall? How about just making more of them so they aren't so expensive to the regular guy, like me. I've often wondered how CRK is able to flood the market with very high quality knives which cost about the same the produce (that's an assumption based on the retail price of the knives in comparison) but RH does not.
Click to expand...

Manufacturing capacity. That is the answer. CRK is a much larger operation

To All--Please do not turn this into a secondary price or general availability bash.
 
Capbyrd said:
I've thought about that alot. And I'm no engineer but I can't seem to figure out a way to to make the knife centered and smooth opening for cheap. I have a few ideas that I think might work but they might add hundreds of dollars to the price of each knife.
Click to expand...

I just bought a Hinderer last week who warned me that it was sitting to the right a little bit, I had no fear when buying it because I've never seen an off center Hinderer. When I got it I tightened the pivot 1/4 turn & it was perfectly centered, then I ran into the issue that I knew was coming, it would not flick open unless using my wrist to do most of the work. The simple solution to every Hinderer I've ever owned was Chris Reeve grease, smooth as butter, centered, perfect.
Ergonomics is what struck me most when I 1st held the well known best hard use folder, I was surprised a tank could be so natural in my hand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top