Need to know more about Cobalt and Titanium blades!

E

ebales

Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
1
Hello!

Let me begin by saying that I am new to the world of bladed weapons. I'm an author and I'm currently working on a book where certain characters are unable to handle weapons made from iron or steel but I still need them to have weapons. I was hoping someone here might have some ideas for me on what other materials I can use to 'make' their weapons? I'd also love to know why steel is preferred over things like titanium/cobalt for blades. Since I'm getting confused just writing this out I'm just going to start listing my questions below....

-What can blades be made out of besides steel/iron?
-Why is steel/iron preferred?
-What are the negatives/positives to a blade made out of titanium/copper/bronze?
-What are the negative/positives to a blade made out of cobalt?
---Can cobalt be used on it's own? Doesn't it have to be alloyed with something? If so, what?

I know it's a lot but I'm completely new to the realities of weaponry AND I apologize if I sound like a total moron. I'm pretty much just wandering around in the dark over here. Thank you so much for your time and consideration!
 
Check out MISSION KNIVES. I have three of which I use two on a regular basis. They are used by the military for EOD, as they are not magnetic. BETA TI is the material. My knives take a fine edge and holds it for a resonable time. Ive skinned several deer in one outing with my smallest MISSION and it was still shaving sharp. You will have people tell you that ti qint good for knives in short order. Dont listen. BETA TI is fine and it works, though it can nver compare to the keenest carbon steel. Most hqve never handled ti knives let alone BETA, as few companies can work it. That doesnt keep people from parroting what misconceptions abound. Suffice it to say, that Ti has a lower hardness than most steel knives. Most buy ti, if they are divers or around salt water a lot. I just like ti and usr mine for a lot of hunting and even more kayaking. Ti is impervious to salt water. Huge advantage for my use. Also much lighter but as strong or stronger than steel. Also check out Spyderco H1. Since you are a writer, check out 'Talonite' for the great name alone! Good luck with the writing.
 
Contact Warren Thomas and William Nease. William is on BF. Also, go to the Sword Forum and there is a thread on Titanium blades. I own one and love it.
rolf
 
You need one of these made from Adamantium :)

97EA83A2-3445-48DE-8D30-87DE8E4439DD-628-000000E418F8A990.jpg
 
On that note and keeping with the requester's question, what about carborized titanium and the sword of choice?

And what about ceramics such as zirconium and CBN, or even DLC?

Just an idea.

Larry
Tinkerer
 
Stellite and Talonite are other materials used for blades. Sorry, I can't be more of a help.

Rob Simonich. now deceased, pioneered Talonite and Tom Mayo is the most famous maker using it, he's a member here.. Knifemaker Kit Carson used/uses a lot of Stellite and could probably help you, too.
 
Talonite has a cobalt matrix and while it was a fad for a while it's doesn't seem to be mentioned these days. Very wear resistance particles in it but the matrix is quite soft .That plus a high price doomed it.
Copper with Beryllium would work though I don't know anyone using it .Non- sparking tools are made from beryllium copper.Don't try this at home as beryllium dust is very TOXIC !!
You could use the ancient bronze which is copper with about 10 % tin. The guys who reproduce those ancient knives are making them and they are available.
Ceramic knives are made but as they are somewhat brittle are not suitable for combat knives . Ancient times used obsidion [glass] knives but I'm not sure you'd want them for combat.
The best choice that I can think of is titanium .I've never had one but a properly made one of the proper all would work though a bit softer than steel.
So titanium or bronze I think is the best for your use.
 
There is H1, which has no carbon and technically is not a steel, and also Dendritic Cobalt, which would sound cool as a blade material for science fiction.

There are blades of G10, in smaller iterations, and there is a cat in the Sword s/f named Mecha that is making sword blades out of some super Titantium alloy that gets sharper and harder than Beta Ti.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
David boye has been working in dendritic cobalt for years. He sells a fixed blade and folding boat knife thats technically not custom but is as custom as some others product.
 
I got to see a knife recently at a knife show that had a dendritic cobalt steel blade, and it was super slick to the touch and had an amazing blueish gleam!
 
I've carried/edc'd a Boye folder with a cast Colbalt blade for years and enjoy it immensely.

I did have Tom Krein regrind the blade with a full height flat grind to .008" on the edge before sharpening....slices like a razor and is completely immune to corrosion or staining.
 
Dendritic Cobalt is poured Stellite 6-B. Talonite is wrought Stellite 6-BH. Stellite 6-K is the longest wearing of the 3. These alloys are roughly half Chrome and half Cobalt.
Beta hardened Titanium is used in Mission knives. Cera-Titan was used in Boker knives. Cera-Titan was a proprietary alloy utilizing TiC (Titanium Carbides) for wear resistance and Silver to enhance ductility.
Carbidizing is a surface treatment applied to the non-bevel side of a chisel sharpened blade. WC (Tungsten Carbide) is applied to steel blades, and TiC is applied to Titanium blades. The coating exposed on the micro edge is much harder than the substrate.View attachment 436459View attachment 436460The first picture is Mission Knives. The second picture has a 6-B folder, a 6-K folder, a 6-BH (Talonite) folder, and a Cera-Titan folder.
 
Saying beta titanium is similar to saying stainless steel. Some unscrupulous people are intentionally causing confusion.

If you want a blade made from titanium, get Beta C titanium. This is what Mission knives uses. The "C" makes the difference just like the "C" in 440C is important. Beta C can be heat treated to about HRC 45. It cuts surprisingly well but is horrible to machine and grind. For comparison, 6AL4V titanium heat treats to about 35 HRC.

Talonite disappeared from the market because of the devaluation of the US dollar. It is imported from Asia. The last time I checked the wholesale cost was above $400 per pound. :eek: I have a few pieces to Talonite tucked away in my private stash.

Stellite 6K is available. We have it on our website fairly regularly.

The best compromise of edge holding, toughness and corrosion resistance are the nitrogen stainless steels. Some people have already mentioned H1. Some alloys that are available to custom knifemakers are N680, N360 and Cronidur 30. N360 is getting very popular with some knifemakers. It grinds and hand sands well and looks good when taken to a mirror polish. It has excellent toughness and good edge holding.

We are working with a steel company to release a nitrogen steel at Blade Show. This steel is interesting because it has great performance and forges well. Stainless steel and forging are words that are rarely used together. Today I held a beautiful chefs knife with forged in bolsters made from this steel. The knifemaker said it will be for sale at Blade Show.

Chuck
 
ebales said:
Hello!

Let me begin by saying that I am new to the world of bladed weapons. I'm an author and I'm currently working on a book where certain characters are unable to handle weapons made from iron or steel but I still need them to have weapons. I was hoping someone here might have some ideas for me on what other materials I can use to 'make' their weapons? I'd also love to know why steel is preferred over things like titanium/cobalt for blades. Since I'm getting confused just writing this out I'm just going to start listing my questions below....

-What can blades be made out of besides steel/iron?
-Why is steel/iron preferred?
-What are the negatives/positives to a blade made out of titanium/copper/bronze?
-What are the negative/positives to a blade made out of cobalt?
---Can cobalt be used on it's own? Doesn't it have to be alloyed with something? If so, what?

I know it's a lot but I'm completely new to the realities of weaponry AND I apologize if I sound like a total moron. I'm pretty much just wandering around in the dark over here. Thank you so much for your time and consideration!
Click to expand...

Bone, stone, volcanic glass, copper, bronze all preceded the iron age

Steel has better strength, ductility or edge retention over them

glass is sharp, but brittle, copper is ductile, but has less edge retention,


the cobalt you see in the hardware store tools now, is high speed steel HSS with 8% cobalt or less



steel is plentiful
 
Hello Alpha Knife Supply,

Beta C is a trademark for one alloy that has been around a long time, rather than a metallurgical term of importance. "Stainless steel" and "beta titanium" are equally vague in that they both refer to a large variety of alloys with differing properties. If stainless steel simply means an iron alloy with enough chromium present to form a protective oxide layer, then beta titanium means titanium that's been alloyed with enough quantity of beta-phase stabilizing elements to allow the body-centered cubic secondary crystal structure to be retained at room temperature when quenched after transus.

Several diving knife manufacturers claim to use beta metastable titanium alloys hardened into the low 50s Rc scale (at the expense of ductility). Experiments with Ti-Nb beta alloys for use as human joint replacements also yield low 50 Rc numbers.
 
Steel is still the most reliable, realistic material for knives. There is always a tradeoff. For knives that will only be slicers and don't need to be tough at all, things like ceramic hold an edge way better than steel, but are very difficult to sharpen. Then, some things are tougher than steel, but easier to bend or don't hold an edge as long or don't hold a very sharp, or fine edge. Fine-grained carbon steel is about the best thing I can think of in terms of balancing all desirable properties of a cutting tool, except for stain resistance- and I'm willing to maintain carbon steel for its benefits.

One cool material I worked with was GNiCr40Al4- made a folder blade with it, that cut very well. It is also supposed to be very tough and stiff, with the caveat that it pretty much breaks rather than bends when it reaches its elastic limit.

It's just one of the family of precipitation or "age" hardening superalloys, which are fun to learn about. This one in particular is IIRC 55% Nickel, 40% Chromium, 4% Aluminum, and the balance is proprietary or trace elements. It hardens by soaking for a few hours at 650 Celcius and will achieve 58 Rc.
 
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