Negative Threads???

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
13,363
I'm in total agreement that everyone is entitled to their opinion and so thankful we have the freedom to voice our opinions, however I have wondered why some find it so important to communicate their negatives opinions via threads.

I'm sure most of you know the threads I'm referring to, they usually start out declaring what the individual doesn't like. Often it's difficult to determine what the individual is trying to accomplish or what if any message they are trying to communicate. Perhaps they are trying to find others that don't like say filework (as misery enjoys company), or perhaps just trying to generate conflict.

And then there are the threads obviously started to create conflict or to piss people here off such as “I’m starting to think custom knives are outdated”. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462995
Well that’s fine go buy production knives and post this thread on the production knife forums.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Any opinions? :confused: :D
 
I'd rather have to wade through trollishly negative thread, if that the cost we have to pay for frank and honest discussions on the flaws of so and so or this and that.
 
I think that posting a negative opinion is just as good, and sometime a better way to start a debate about something then it is to post something positive.

If someone starts a thread by stating that they have seen a lot of pattern welded steel being used recently and they really don't care for it, and they wonder what the attraction is, it is very different than starting a thread in a custom knife forum about how they think that custom knives are a total waste of money. The first can start a reasonable debate, the second will get people angry and lead to a bunch of name calling and flames.
 
I agree with you Kevin, but I can understand Joss's point as well.

Personally, I am the type of person that looks for the good first, and tries to comment on that first (knives or ANYTHING). I know many people that just automatically look for the negative first... and usually comment on it first.

A simple example. I was 12 and I spent like 8 hours mowing my neighbor's lawn that had turned into a field. My dad looked it over and the first thing he did was point out two little spots that I could have gotten just a bit better.

It really bothered me that he didn't even notice that the lawn looked 85 times better.



Well, he did, he just didn't mention it.

I keep that in mind when the first thing I hear about one of my knives is something negative.

Or, that maybe I just made a knife that sucks :p

I'm a big believer in two sayings, "If'n ya aint got noth'n nice to say, don't say nuth'n at all." And from my Grandma, "Never miss a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut."

HOWEVER, if someone asks for direct and honest criticism then that's a different story. Then I think you should be honest... but constructively.
 
Joss said:
I'd rather have to wade through trollishly negative thread, if that the cost we have to pay for frank and honest discussions on the flaws of so and so or this and that.
Click to expand...

I don't think frank and honest discussions are negative. For example, the thread on "deal breakers" was both informative and very productive for makers. Another past thread addressed "what is considered a flaw". Again, had purpose, was productive and did not regress to conflict and members abusing one another verbally.

I'm referring to the old "ART Knives are Worthless", and the regular "production knives or better than custom knives" topics that seem to go on and on and get quite nasty at times.

Nick, those old sayings make a lot sense.
 
Kevin,

A trollishly negative post is that of the "art knives are worthless". I have no use for those BUT if that's the price to pay for the benefit of reading constructive criticism and frank feedback on makers (see the recent Fitch thread), then it's worthwhile.

Personally, I find purely positive threads to be remarkably devoid of useful content. Pictures help, but simple glorifications of this or that are not very useful to me.
 
Joss said:
Kevin,

A trollishly negative post is that of the "art knives are worthless". I have no use for those BUT if that's the price to pay for the benefit of reading constructive criticism and frank feedback on makers (see the recent Fitch thread), then it's worthwhile.
Personally, I find purely positive threads to be remarkably devoid of useful content. Pictures help, but simple glorifications of this or that are not very useful to me.
Click to expand...

Good point Joss. I wouldn't classify today's John Fitch thread as negative as Keith started it as a positive. And post were presented well for and against.
As I posted "good information for collectors as long as all post were factual".
I think we are in agreement here.
 
Well, cyber-personality wise, am generally very similar in writing to Joss.....frank, no punches pulled, occasionally (frequently:D ) overbearing.

The POINT should be to have a point, articulate your opinions, and reasons for them, inviting discussion, rather than being a pontificating windbag.

While I am also glad that we can all have an opinion, in my opinion, DaveH was being a douche with the "filework" thread. What do you want from a person who feels that the Sebenza is the pinnacle of bladeware? One who JUST recently attended Blade for the first time? This is clearly the work of a collector with very limited scope and scale of experience.

I like the Sebenza, too, don't get me wrong, but it is not a Carson M4, a Mayo Dr. Death, or an R.J. Martin Havoc. Those knives for me, and my intents, are "better". That is an opinion that can hopefully be discussed, everyone can have a say, and maybe something good comes out of it, yunno?

You always have to look at the source, Kevin, and not get bunged up when someone is an asshat. We all do it from time to time(except for Bastid, Keith Montgomery and Roger P;) ), hopefully it is not repeated ad infinitum.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Well, cyber-personality wise, am generally very similar in writing to Joss.....frank, no punches pulled, occasionally (frequently:D ) overbearing.

The POINT should be to have a point, articulate your opinions, and reasons for them, inviting discussion, rather than being a pontificating windbag.

While I am also glad that we can all have an opinion, in my opinion, DaveH was being a douche with the "filework" thread. What do you want from a person who feels that the Sebenza is the pinnacle of bladeware? One who JUST recently attended Blade for the first time? This is clearly the work of a collector with very limited scope and scale of experience.

You always have to look at the source, Kevin, and not get bunged up when someone is an asshat. We all do it from time to time(except for Bastid, Keith Montgomery and Roger P;) ), hopefully it is not repeated ad infinitum.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Well put STeven. Bravo.:thumbup:
I stood up and cheered for Roger during the incedent in the Best Ivory thread :eek: :D
 
Joss said:
I'd rather have to wade through trollishly negative thread, if that the cost we have to pay for frank and honest discussions on the flaws of so and so or this and that.
Click to expand...

I concur. As someone who can't afford custom knives right now, but is very interested in acquiring them down the line, all discussion of customs is welcome to me.

Learning about peoples tastes in the very diverse realm of customs is quite illuminating to someone like me who only has experience with productions. As long as the post remains constructive, negativity and criticism are just as welcome to me.

BF is kinda like a family and (mostly)everyone has something to teach me, especially in this particular forum.
 
Welcome eojk.

Pardon me all, if I appear a little more riled-up than usually as reflected in the thread. My Daughter was on campus @ Vatech on Monday morning. She's home safe now thank god.
 
I empathize with the story of Nick's dad and the long-reminding effect it had on him. I have a similar Dad story, too. Makes me try to overachieve to meet MY goals..... ;)

Who doesn't have a critique opinion or the ability to state something critical or negative? Damn, it is humanly intuitive.

This place gives us an opportunity to exchange these ideas, BUT, there are rules of engagement--many unspoken.

Use balance--if you have something construed negative to say, first find something positive to remark on. It always lessens the blow and shows that you at least studied the piece or concept.

Silence speaks perceived volumes, too. (Can be misconstrued.)

Ya know I am going to post my Kumbaya thoughts or nothing at all. I sure would like to get my hands dirty, but it's enough work learning how to place tact in front of hard discussion. Something my Dad indirectly taught me....

Coop
 
I love hearing negative comments from informed, thoughtful, and respectful individuals. Negative comments posted by those who don't fit that description simply get dismissed.

But negative threads about negative threads really chap my ass. :p
 
Kevin, glad to hear your doughter is safe.

I do see where you're coming from and see no need for some of these negative threads. But look at all the filework we got to see just because of the thread DaveH started :thumbup:

I do like the variety we have here over some of the other places. This forum is rarely boring.
 
sunfishman said:
Kevin, glad to hear your doughter is safe.
I do see where you're coming from and see no need for some of these negative threads. But look at all the filework we got to see just because of the thread DaveH started :thumbup:

I do like the variety we have here over some of the other places. This forum is rarely boring.
Click to expand...

Thanks Don.
Coop and others came through with some great knives. Took a lemon of a thread and made lemonade. :thumbup: :D
 
Kohai999 said:
You always have to look at the source, Kevin, and not get bunged up when someone is an asshat. We all do it from time to time(except for Bastid, Keith Montgomery and Roger P;) ), hopefully it is not repeated ad infinitum.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I'm sure I've been an asshat at least once or twice. ;)

As for the "negativity" thing - I find that over time I have seen periods where it seems more dominant than others. Maybe we should plot this against the phases of the moon, or something. Overall, I don't find it to be problematic. Trolls will be apart of any internet forum - it's just the way things are. You can either kick them in the teeth or ignore them, but the choice is always yours. I'm all in favor of candid discussions.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
As for the "negativity" thing - I find that over time I have seen periods where it seems more dominant than others. Maybe we should plot this against the phases of the moon, or something.
Click to expand...

Roger....it's called Seasonal Affective Disorder.:D

JT
 
The knives we are usually discussing around here are all in the top 1% of custom knives, with most in the top 1/100 of the top 1%. The only way to differentiate between them, is to fixate on minor differences in fit , finish, materials and design. Perhaps we should look for things that the maker might try to improve upon next time out. This would give the discussions a more positive spin.

When you look at Olympic sports such as swimming or skiing, the difference between the Gold Medal and 4th place (off the podium) is measured in 1/100s of a second. Some might consider that a pretty tough standard indeed, others would say that that is the whole point of the exercise.
 
ptgdvc said:
The knives we are usually discussing around here are all in the top 1% of custom knives, with most in the top 1/100 of the top 1%. The only way to differentiate between them, is to fixate on minor differences in fit , finish, materials and design. Perhaps we should look for things that the maker might try to improve upon next time out. This would give the discussions a more positive spin.
Click to expand...

member:1
"I'm really like the knife and think it would really shine in a slightly bigger version.
I find the handle pin distracting though. Just a very minor dig."

maker:
"Thanks. Seriously, what would you suggest concerning the pin? Different material? smaller? or no pin(hidden) at all?"

member:2
"I would be one that would like a mosaic pin.
I have no problem with the exposed pin that you did. Engraving would complement it."

member:1
"While I am sure there are folks on the board who would like a mosaic pin I would prefer none at all. The pin distracts from the nice work you did around the guard."

member:3
"Interesting how opinions vary. Rather than the pin distracting form the guard, I see it as adding to the handle. Without the pin the handle would appear too plain or out of sink with the rest of the knife. A little engraving on the pin would also add IMO."

member:1
"First of all, I wouldn't dare mix engraving with that fine filework. Too many textures and a knife gets too busy-especially damascus.
Fine wood is never too plain for my eyes."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point Peter. It brought an example to mind of a recent thread exchange (above) between a maker and several members regarding a small detail of a Bowie by the maker. This maker is obviously soaking up the opinions of the collectors like a sponge as he is one that is always pushing himself to the next level with every project. Not just with his knives but all aspects of the business, including his website. He will no doubt become one of the greats as a result of this.

Again, an example of a very positive exchange between a few regulars where all benefited.
The negativity I'm set out to address in this thread is usually instigated by outsiders who run into our customs forum, throws a hand grenade then run. IMO this was the intention of the individual that started the "filework" thread, however several members quickly turned it into a very interesting and positive experience for all.
 
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