"Neo Sebenza"

Joined
Jun 12, 2001
Messages
2
It appears that, to many, the Sebenza has set a certain standard for a tough, utilitarian folder...a lot of people want one, but there's only so many to go 'round. Hence, they are pricey (it makes me cringe thinking of using a $300+ knife to actually cut something, nevertheless carry around the homestead and chance losing it) and oftentimes difficult to come by.

My question is, what folders (production or custom) are out there now that currently lack the name recognition of CRK, but have the potential of becoming the new Sebenzas of the future?

TIA
 
Sorry, wont find a replacement for the old sebbie.
What you'll find out is the longer you buy carry and collect knives the less that 300.00 will seem like. When I started out a long time ago I felt the same way about 150.00 knives. Now that 150.00 knife is what i call a beater. So keep collectiong and one day 300 may not seem so bad. Later, Jeff

[This message has been edited by salamander (edited 06-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by salamander (edited 06-12-2001).]
 
I have to agree with Salamander (Jeff). I first bought a Spyderco Delica for the amazing sum of $45 only three years ago and was hesitant to use it.

Now the Spyderco is my 'beater' knife, along with an SOG and Cold Steel blades. I like Benchmade, but they too will probably become 'beaters' when I buy the Sebbie or similar in a couple of years.

I am beginning to see that if you buy right, the knife will last your lifetime and that of your kids.
 
Do yourself a favor. If you want the best production knife out there get a Sebenza, carry it and use it. Clip it on your waistband where you'll always know where it is and I don't think you'll have any problems loosing it.

Everything else that costs less is less. Not that there aren't some find knives out there for less money.

Were I going to buy something else I'd be looking at a Benchmade most likely. I like several of their designs and the Axis lock is thought of as a very good design.

Spyderco's are very well thought of as well but personally they don't please my eye as well.

You have to understand that Sebenzas were originally custom knives that have been put into production with about as little reduction in quality between a custom and a production knife as possible. Thats a rare thing.



[This message has been edited by Roj Avon (edited 06-12-2001).]
 
A good compromise to the Sebenza:

@ 1/3 the cost
delivering 2/3 the performance

===> Benchmade Pinnacle 750.

Beat that around for a while. Then save your pennies and buy a used Sebenza...they pop up often on the forums, probably 3 or 4 up for grabs right now.
 
Consider the CRKT S-2 along with the BM Pinnacle (750). I slightly prefer it. Cheaper, too.

But now you're talking about comparing frame locks--not comparing quality knives. I'd say a good specimen of Benchmade 710 Axis is up there.
 
I thought my Delica for $80(canadian) was expensive, after buying the $40 knives.. I'm now the proud owner of a Tufram Cricket for $100, as my work knife. I'm around chemicals and water all day, and this is my beater. I only have a ladybug for school, as I don't care if they take it at $35(now).

Buying a beater is only a question of how much you normally spend. My next beater will be a Spyderco Native, plain edge(440V).

Most of my knives are beaters, the only ones that aren't are my hunting knives. 4"-6", they are a little hard to carry in the city...

------------------
~Alea iacta est
~Par Palam e Flamma Fert Spiritus
~Regere Sanguine Regere In Veritatem Est
~Moritori te Salutamus
~Mortem Recipis, quod Vita in Morte Venit

What's sharper? Your Mind, or my Spydie?
 
Born2B:

I think what makes the Sebenza's expensive is not scarcity, but the quality of materials and workmanship that goes into them. For anything to be a future Sebbie it would have to have the awesome BG-42 edge, zero blade play, sweet action and perfect finish of a Sebenza and would cost as much
smile.gif


3 years ago I thought my Gerber Ez-Out was really cool. Now I have a large plain (with a G2 sheath), a small Classic (with the clip on) and a small Aztech Decorated (with a cut down, tip down G2 sheath to "show it off")and don't regret buying any of them
biggrin.gif


Sebenza's: To those who understand no explanation is necessary, to those who don't no explanation is possible
wink.gif


And welcome to our madness!

------------------


"Don't get even, get odd"
 
It isn't just that CRK is a well known brand. There are a lot of quality folders on the market that cost much less than the Sebenza, and there are some good ones being made by less well known custom knife makers too, but I haven't seen one that had the same combination of ultra-strong materials coupled with such absolute engineering simplicity, and those two things together are what make the Seb tick.

That being said, I have to note that my sebs are the two most expensive knives I own. Even my other customs are not nearly so expensive, though its something of an apples to oranges comparison since of all my other customs (8 now) are fixed blades!
 
born2be -- welcome to the forums, and to questioning the Sebenza "mystique."

I'm in the odd position of straddling the Sebenza fence, so to speak. Surprising myself totally, I bought a Sebenza at a knife show Saturday. It was at a very attractive price, and I had just gotten a CRKT S-2 about a week before. I can now, if I wish, compare the two of them.

The Sebenza is used, so I can't speak as to how smooth the action was when it was new. Everyone seems to swear it is super smooth out of the box. Well, my S-2 was not super smooth, but it was pretty smooth. It has the same handle material as the CR, but has ATS-34 blade steel.

When I posted about the Sebenza the other day, I think I said it had the smoothest action of any knife I'd ever used. Well, I realized yesterday that really isn't true. Two of my CRKTs the KFF and the M16-14 are at least as smooth as the Sebenza. They aren't new by any means. The M16 was stiffer when I got it than the KFF. The KFF was mighty smooth when new, and now sufficient TufGlide and enuff cycles later, it is at least as smooth as the Sebenza. Maybe smoother. Both of them require so little effort to open the blade it is amazing.

So far, I'm willing to concede that the quality of the Sebenza is there. I know the steel is better, and the action is terrific. Mine has 2 tiny, shallow scratches, the only flaws I could find. My biggest quarrel with it is the ergonomics. Rather I should say the near total absence of them. Plus which, the handle is shorter than I would like it to be. I'm going to have to live with the Sebenza awhile -- I am carrying it -- and see if I can get over the poor ergonimics.

To me, the ergonimics are extremely important. As Ed Fowler has said, the handle is the interface between the knife and the hand. Good knife design recognizes the shapes of the human hand, and is formed to fit the hand as well as possible. There are no real straight lines on the human body, except at certain exhilarating moments and for those few condemned to have only one eyebrow.

Take a look at the handle along the line of the blade spine (when opened)of the Sebenza. It is straight as a string. The hand simply will not form itself into a straight line to match that form. There are high points and low, or non-touching points. I have to admit that I wonder if there isn't some arrogance involved in that.

I am not a heavy user of knives. I keep thinking about trying to carve, but if I do, it won't be with a Sebenza. So, the edge-holding of a blade in reality isn't nearly as important to me as it is to many others. So, going back to the percentages discussed earlier, only using my S-2 instead of the Pinnacle -- which by the way has extremely similar styling to the Sebenza -- it cost less than a third of what the Sebenza costs new, or its current value. If I carried it for years, I'd probably need to sharpen the S-2 say every 3 years, instead of every 4 years for the Sebenza. So, the question may well be, is the Sebenza worth all that extra money because I'll spend at most an hour less sharpening it over a 12-year period than I would the S-2? I'm thinking about that.

Oh -- to be fair, one must consider the warranty. Sebenzas are warrantied for life -- at least to the first owner. I'm simply not aware of what warranty CRKT provides. I've only heard that they are great about standing behind their products. Also, the finish of the Sebenza is different from that of the S-2. The Sebenza has an almost velvety feeling to the handles. That is very nice. It also has a rounded blade spine, something the S-2 does not have -- which few knives have. Again, looking at Ed Fowler's words about that, he says a knife with a blade spine not rounded simply isn't finished. I can't find any logical argument against that.

I'll finish this incredibly long post by saying that I do believe that the frame lock is the simplest, strongest lock possible. I likely will limit most of my carry knives to those having that lock.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

------------------
Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Born to be, welcome to the forums! But.... What's up with CRK having lack of recognition? Whoa there, you can't go far in bladeforums without coming across the ringing praises of the products and service of CRK. Bugs, I agree with you that the frame lock is an awesome lock and it is the only one I will carry. For me, the next step up was to the Mayo TNT medium recurve. The Sebbie is a great knife but the Mayo is something else. If I rated the TNT as a 10, I would rate the Seb as a 9 or a 9.5.
 
The TNT is a definite upgrade on the Sebenza. CRK makes a fine knife (I own 7), but Tom Mayo's TNT is two notches above!! And he makes every one by hand: a true custom knife. (If the TNT is a "10", it moves the Sebenza to an "8+" or at most an "8.5"...

My $.02 worth,
Michael

------------------
He who has smelt the smoke is never free again...
 
I think that a production knife that rates 8+ to 9.5 against a custom Mayo is a pretty damn good production knife!

There has to be a line between custom and production knives...this is it. I can think of no other company that comes so close to this line.


Steve-O
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by born2be:
My question is, what folders (production or custom) are out there now that currently lack the name recognition of CRK, but have the potential of becoming the new Sebenzas of the future?</font>

No production knife that I have handled is ever going to equal or replace the Sebenza.

I have not handled a Mayo TNT (sure would like to), but don't doubt that they are everything they are said to be.
Darrel Ralph's Apogee is one that I can comment on, and I believe that it is everything a Sebenza is in regards to design and strength. It also has the advantage of more ergonomic handles, a recurved edge, and the availability of "superior" choices in blade material. Doesn't hurt that it's gorgeous, either
smile.gif


These are commonly known names around here, but I don't know how common they are to the general public (Darrel is everywhere lately).

How about Bob Dozier's folders?
I've only seen these in pictures, but they seem to fit the criteria for a "tough, utilitarian folder". I was just drooling over pics of his TabStop2 at TAD's site. Really like the grinds. Not something you see on a folder very often.
eek.gif
They look like they're actually made to cut stuff with!
The Workhorse is on there, too.
Check 'em out:
http://www.tripleaughtdesign.com/b__dozier.htm

 
born2be - if you haven't already, go to Wright Knife & Sporting Goods in La Mesa (619-465-6905 wrightknife@ixpress.com ) and look at a Sebenza. You'll also find an excellent selection of production knives to compare it to. Then you can see for yourself if there's anything around that stands up to the Sebenza. I gotta admit I didn't understand why people loved the Sebenza so much, since it does look like a grey turd, until I got to handle one and feel the action and lock-up. I can't afford one yet, but I know I'll get one when I can.


------------------
Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
Steve-O,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There has to be a line between custom and production knives...this is it. I can think of no other company that comes so close to this line.</font>

We tend to have very similar discussions about Randall knives. I would argue that they hold the same spot with respect to fixed blades. Like the CRKs, they were once custom knives that have been standardized and put into production with little change in quality levels (or pricing
frown.gif
).


born2be,
BTW, for better or worse $300 is not that much for a quality folder. You can certainly buy less expensive factory integral locks like the Camillus EDC for $40-60, but a true handmade knife like the Appogee or TNT will go for at least twice as much.

Welcome to the forums.
N2S
 
Ishay hit it right on the nose.

Owen,
I have the Dozier Buckhunter and it is a heavy duty knife if ever I have seen one. Thick blade with a thin grind from D-2 steel makes a great cutter! My daily carry is now between the two; the new large woody Sebenza and the Buckhunter. But if I could only keep one it would have to be the Sebenza. Everything just comes together in this knife!

------------------
Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12
 
I just wanted to chime in and say that I don't think that a knife handle has to look like a piece of clay you squeezed in your hand to be "ergonomic".

While it doesn't have curves and finger notches I find that the size and shape of the large Sebbie's handle is very comfortable in my hand. I'd also like to point out that the regular shape and proportion of the handle means that you can hold it several different ways easily. If a knife is molded to the hand usually there is only one way to comfortably hold it.

Between the scallops on the bottom, the fine ridges that run across the top and the overall shape and proportion of the handle I don't think that you can fault the ergonomics of Sebbies at all.

Still, its largely a matter of opinion as far as what feels good in your hand. As for me though I don't need a molded plastic finger grooves for a knife to feel right.
 
Back
Top