New Blade Steels For Spyderedges?

J

JD Spydo

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Nov 20, 2004
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With all the new blade steels we've been blessed with in the past 8 to 10 years or so has been sort of mind blowing to say the least. But most of the hoopla has been focused on the performance of plain edged blades with these newer/better blade steels.

But at this time what I would like to know is which of these newer blade steels would be ideal for Spyderedged blades. For instance I've thought for some time now that CTS-XHP has the ideal properties for a Spyderedged blade. It goes without saying that H-1 has proven to be a premium blade steel for Spyderedges and it makes me wonder if that other nitrogen based steel LC200N would also be a great steel for Spyderedges.

So what newer blade steels would you all like to see Spyderco use on their Spyderedged models? Also which of the older blade steels did you like in Spyderedge?
 
I dont know if this answers your question or not but I have the pm 2 and Manix 2 LW in s110v and could not be more impressed. Absolutely love both designs and the s110v. I have a Manix 2 LW in Maxamet due here Friday and I'm super excited about trying this new steel.

So far, I can't imagine better edge retention than s110v, but I've heard great things about Maxamet!
 
Snakebreaker said:
I dont know if this answers your question or not but I have the pm 2 and Manix 2 LW in s110v and could not be more impressed. Absolutely love both designs and the s110v. I have a Manix 2 LW in Maxamet due here Friday and I'm super excited about trying this new steel.

So far, I can't imagine better edge retention than s110v, but I've heard great things about Maxamet!
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I'm a bit confused:confused: are these Spyderedged ( serrated) blade models you are speaking of? I have a couple of 110V Spyders myself but I'm not aware of one of those 110V or Maxamet models with a serrated/Spyderedge. My thread is asking about which blade steels are best on Spyderedges. If they do have one or both of those models available in serrated edge I would sure like to try one.
 
I think that the super abrasion resistant carbide steels would make for endless edge retention on a spyderedged blade, but what would it be like trying to sharpen one?

I want a 3V blade on a spyderco military, plain edge though. Ide love to see a 3V spyderedge rescue type knife.
 
it would be extremely time consuming to have a high carbide steel to sharpen with a spideredged. I think that's the main reason why spyderedged steel has not increased in steel types. but I'm only assuming. these sell to people who have specialized tasks that might not need frequent sharpening or need it to be sharpened easier so not to take forever since you have to focus on each seraded part.
 
Riz! said:
I think that the super abrasion resistant carbide steels would make for endless edge retention on a spyderedged blade, but what would it be like trying to sharpen one?

I want a 3V blade on a spyderco military, plain edge though. Ide love to see a 3V spyderedge rescue type knife.
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A Spyderedged blade in "3V"!!!! Wow! I never even remotely thought of that one. That would be so awesome on a fixed blade like a JUMPMASTER model or any other fixed blade that they would do in the Spyderedged variant.

As far as the one Brother who said something in the regard of using the most premium blade steel like a 110V or something in that league>> no that isn't exactly what I had in mind. I'm thinking more of a blade steel with more toughness properties than I am about a steel with a Rockwell hardness of 60+. Because historically I've had better results with Spyderedged blades that had more toughness properties than steels with outrageous hardness properties.

I'm still thinking along the lines of XHP or maybe even the older CPM-D2 for that matter. After using XHP in the Military model it's just my gut feeling that XHP has what it takes to make a great Spyderedged blade steel. Just look at great Spyderedged models from the past. Now VG-10 is kind of a different animal because I've had decent results with it in Spyderedge and plain edge both. I'm just wondering which of these newer blade steels have the traits of a steel that would do well in Spyderedge?
 
Did anyone forget that they are now going to finally offer the Carribean model in LC200N in Spyderedge? Being LC200N is a nitrogen based blade steel similar to H-1 I happen to be very anxious as to how it will stack up against the nitrogen based H-1 in Spyderedge.

Now properties of toughness and to some degree tensile strength seem to be advantageous to Spyderedged blades whereas they wouldn't be optimal for plain edged blades. I'm now wondering how 3V and 10V might fare in Spyderedge?

I've also been wondering how maybe one of the older blade steels that were good in Spyderedge like AUS-8 for instance>> and I'm wondering if you would take something like AUS-8 and subject it to "ion fusion" of Boron Nitride coating to see if that would make an indestructible Spyderedge. Just a few possiblities to ponder>> what do you all say? And which blade steels would you all like to see in Spyderedge?
 
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It took me a while to realize that there are indeed profound differences in different blade steels for Spyderedges. But after using a couple of different blade steels I did notice that some of the older blade steels seemed to endure hard cutting jobs and resist chipping. Take AUS-8 for instance I never heard anyone complain of chipping with that blade steel. And who would have thought for even a nano-second that H-1 would end up being Spyderco's best serrated edge blade steel up till now?

I'm wondering if you all have any ideas of any newer or even older blade steels that you all think might make for good Spyderedges? I've even wondered if ion fused blades might even make for good Spyderedges? I've also wondered if some type of sintered coating would make Spyderedges perform at a higher level?
 
How deep into the steel does ion-infused CBN penetrate? I'd think any purely surface layer would be gone from the edge after a few sharpenings, maybe even the first one.
 
Bill1170 said:
How deep into the steel does ion-infused CBN penetrate? I'd think any purely surface layer would be gone from the edge after a few sharpenings, maybe even the first one.
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The "Ion Fused" models that Buck did back in the late 90s ( models 119 & 110) were made to where you sharpened them on one side. That way the actual cutting edge was part of the metal used in the Ion Fusion itself. But hard core Buck fans just couldn't go along with the fact that you could only sharpen one -side. Now how that might work out with a Spyderedge I'm just not sure. But it would be interesting to see how a metal considerably harder than steel would work in a serrated edge>> because actually you only sharpen most serrated edges on one side.

Going back to H-1 blade steel which has a lot different properties than most blade steels that Spyderco uses ended up being their best performer in Spyderedge >> and that's according to Spyderco themselves. So I'm thinking that the future in Spyderedges might just be found in other "nitrogen based" blade steels.
 
Is work hardening a common attribute for Nitrogen based alloys?

If that is the case, I am curious as to how the added edge holding of LC200N will stack up when ground for a fully serrated blade.
 
I think it's important to step back and consider the physics of a serrated Spyderco before guessing at what steel properties will work best. A typical serrated spyderco is chisel ground. One side is flat (or rather has the primary bevel angle which is maybe 2 or 3 degrees. The other side has the serrations ground in it at an angle that is typically less than 15 degrees. This means that a factory ground serrated Spyderco has an inclusive edge bevel of about 15-20 degrees. That's a mighty thin edge. Add to that the small area of the tips of the teeth and you have an edge that really doesn't have much steel supporting it. I would guess that many of the high carbide steels available today are going to be prone to dulling through microchipping given the physical characteristics of that kind of edge. That could be one of the reasons that H1 makes for a good serrated edge. H1 is far tougher than any other steel in Spyderco's lineup and is a steel that will consistently resist breaking/chipping when pushed beyond the limits of its strength.

I guess my point is that a serrated edge is a completely different animal than a plain edge and some of the steels we normally think of as "super steels" might actually underperform if used for a serrated edge.
 
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Surfingringo said:
I guess my point is that a serrated edge is a completely different animal than a plain edge and some of the steels we normally think of as "super steels" might actually underperform if used for a serrated edge.
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That's precisely why I started this thread. Because the blade steels I've used in the past that I've found that make ideal Spyderedged blades mostly were not very celebrated, neon, marquee type steels like XHP, M390, S90V ect, ect.

No the steels I've found where I've had the best results with have been stuff like the ancient, dinosaur era GIN-1 for instance. But I guess it stands to reason because the Spyderedge in the early going is kind of what put them on the map to begin with. Then we have AUS-8 which I never really was impressed with on plain edges but I love it for Spyderedges. I've never used a Spyderedge made with AUS-6 but two friends of mine said it was not bad either. I've also had decent results using ATS-55, ATS-34, 440V and VG-10 which I've also had good PE results with as well.

Yeah the toughness properties I do believe are the key and I'm wondering if different heat treat regimens might make a difference as well. But I'm sure we have H-1 with teeth here for some time to come and I'm waiting to see how LC200N comes through in SE.

Some of the J. A. Henckels kitchen knives I've got over the years really perform nicely in SE but I have no idea what they've used. I am curious to know what Spyderco has planned for future Spyderedged blades. Because you and I both know that they constantly raise the bar on all of their products.
 
JD Spydo said:
The "Ion Fused" models that Buck did back in the late 90s ( models 119 & 110) were made to where you sharpened them on one side. That way the actual cutting edge was part of the metal used in the Ion Fusion itself. But hard core Buck fans just couldn't go along with the fact that you could only sharpen one -side. Now how that might work out with a Spyderedge I'm just not sure. But it would be interesting to see how a metal considerably harder than steel would work in a serrated edge>> because actually you only sharpen most serrated edges on one side.

Going back to H-1 blade steel which has a lot different properties than most blade steels that Spyderco uses ended up being their best performer in Spyderedge >> and that's according to Spyderco themselves. So I'm thinking that the future in Spyderedges might just be found in other "nitrogen based" blade steels.
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Interesting. I know a company that sells jointer and planer straight knives which have 0.001" of tungsten carbide vacuum deposited onto the back face, which never gets ground when resharpening the knives. It's a clever approach, allows grinding with standard wheels intended for HSS, extends edge life, and prevents corrosion on the back face. It also protects that face from wear, because the back face is what forms and curls the chips on a straight knife cutterhead.
 
Bill1170 said:
Interesting. I know a company that sells jointer and planer straight knives which have 0.001" of tungsten carbide vacuum deposited onto the back face, which never gets ground when resharpening the knives. It's a clever approach, allows grinding with standard wheels intended for HSS, extends edge life, and prevents corrosion on the back face. It also protects that face from wear, because the back face is what forms and curls the chips on a straight knife cutterhead.
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I like that idea/concept of a tungsten carbide coating. But also that Ion Fusion idea that Buck tried to implement was probably ahead of it's time. Serrated edges are still somewhat of a new concept when you consider that cutlery has been around for centuries. Which is why I started this thread to try to get some ideas on what would enhance or improved Spyderedges and other serrated edges as well.

I think these types of coatings are a possibility of a method of enhancement or maybe new types of blade steels which just might be specially alloyed for serrated edges and Spyderedges both.
 
I'm not a huge fan of serrations on a knife, but if toughness and edge stability are keyword them working, maybe Elmax would be the steel of choice? From what I've heard it's a very tough stainless. Spyderco is coming out with serrated Natives in s35nv. If s35vn works, Elmax would probably be better based on the attributes you defined
 
M. Johnwell said:
I'm not a huge fan of serrations on a knife, but if toughness and edge stability are keyword them working, maybe Elmax would be the steel of choice? From what I've heard it's a very tough stainless. Spyderco is coming out with serrated Natives in s35nv. If s35vn works, Elmax would probably be better based on the attributes you defined
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That's one of the steels I've never yet personally tested. I've read about it a year or so ago and I seem to remember where I first heard about it. Yeah "toughness" is truly one of the key properties to a good Spyderedged blade. Most of the steels that I've found that perform well in Spyderedge do seem to have better toughness properties and not at all extra hard like ZDP-189 or steels in that sector.

I am sort of anxious to try out the Spyderedged NATIVE in S35V>> however my experiences with S30V in SE were not all that great. I've even found VG-10 to be much better for instance. But the predecessor of S30V and that being 440V aka S60V has been an excellent steel for Spyderedges and I still use one frequently and that being an older NATIVE SE model. It's interesting that one of the very first steels that Spyderco used right out of the gate which was GIN-1 or G-2 and it was much
 
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