New Catalogue Blues

B

brownshoe

I support this site with my MIND
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Sep 6, 2002
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I own spydercos and have always looked forward to the new catalog. I've been looking at the newest catalog from Spyderco. I found it lacking somehow compared to years past. I've always found something I wanted, but not this year. I tried to put my finger on it, and what I came up with was Inovation. The new catalog doesn't have anything "brand spanking new" when it comes to ideas. For example:

- Emerson came out with the persian and karambit before spyderco. In my opinion it looks like he did it better.
- The spyderfly is just a retread of the benchmade balisongs, which was also redone by cold steel and microtech before spyderco. The spyderco design looks weird, but not really innovative.
- Rescue knives looked new, until i realized that the glass breaker and whistle idea has done by others before.
- ATR is a sebenza with a strange shaped blade and a compression lock.
- The compression lock is a lot like Doziers "top lock" and in many ways just a slight re-think of a liner a/o frame lock. My experience with the compression lock, is it's a pain to undo and not an improvement.
- The cobra hood is just a thumbdisk originally done terzuola.
- The SPOT and DODO have the same old twisted spyderco blade. Never liked it...still don't.
- The SPOT with thumbhole was done before by Emerson, CRKT and S&W.
- The military is aka as benchmade's ascent. There's been a "para-ascent" around for years.


Only new blade steel is for the dive knife, but there was no info as to how good it was. The only other thing that appeared to be really new to me was the handle design of the DODO and scorpion.

Anyone else left cold by the new entries into the product line?
 
Hey maybe you could give Sal a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice in it. There's a new idea. Oh wait it's been done.
 
I haven't seen the new catalog yet.
Does it include the new Chinook II?

I find the Spyderfly about as different from the balisong, regardless of who makes it, as a balisong can get and still meet the definition of a balisong.

I like the Dodo.
I see that whole family of ergonomics unique to Spyderco and an obvious in hindsight innovation.

I see the SPOT as the perfection of a concept.
The first guy to perfection wins. :)

How ironic: I see Spyderco as the single most innovative knife designer/manufacturer on the planet.
Everything they do shouts evolutionary breakthrough.

I wonder if brownshoe just wanted to get some controversy going.
It seems to me they have a name for that. :)
 
By the way, I think you mean you were looking for Innovation .

Let's see, I was just playing around with my new William Henry button-lock Westcliff folder. Hmmmm..., Scott Sawby has being doing buttonlocks for years, so that's pretty boring. Hmmmm...Wharncliffe blades? Been around for hundreds of years - pretty boring. Pearl scales inlaid intin an integral titanium bolstered platform - hmmmm... seems like just everyone has done that one.

Yes, I know this is the Spyderco forum - but the above is just to say it is pretty easy to demean any maker's knives when you consider that true innovation doesn't come on a schedule.

I guess you don't like the ball lock (I do). The glass breaker on the Assist squeezes out of the handle so that it isn't always a present hazard (Seems innovative to me). Regarding balisongs - about an interested design delivered at roughly half the cost of a Benchmade balisong. I can guarantee you that the quality level will be at least as good as the BM product.

Sometimes Innovation is a feast or famine kind of phenomenon. Sometimes, great Execution in the manufacturing process will just have to do.
 
Well, in one sense the catalog is sort of anti-climactic. But, I suspect, in this age of the internet that holds true for almost any paper catalog. By the time I got mine I already had a Persian in my hands. It's the first Spyderco with bolsters, double liners, and micarta scales. Granted it's not a "major innovative breakthrough", like the round hole or the pocket clip, and not even a "first by a major manufacturer", like the use of H-1 in the new Salt 1, but it was very much in line with my personal tastes. Am sure the Emerson Persian is a fine knife too, but I don't care for liner locks, tactical black blades,or thumb studs

Speaking of the Salt, picked up one of those too, here again the catalog was an anti-climax, as I knew of it for quite a while, and had ordered it before I got the catalog. H-1 may never be "the hot steel" but it seems to hold an edge well and, if you take the time to find and read the reports on it, is highly corrosion resistant. I can see it showing up in at least some of the "rescue" type knives in the future.

Same deal with the Chinook II, it's is another new one that exictes me, even though it originally appeared in the 2003 catalog. The four way clip mounting may not be a big thing to some, but as a lefty, I'm darn glad to see it. Mine is on its way to me, am sure it will have been worth the wait.

IMHO, the most innovative new knife in the 2004 catalog is a real "sleeper", the Maddox. Granted, you need a broken arm which, having had one years ago, I would not wish on anyone to really appreciate this knife, but it certainly fills a previously unfilled niche in the knife market.

Like you, I'm not too keen on the compression lock. As an old fart, I'm not too keen on any lock other that the tried and true front lock / lockback for that matter. But that does not stop me from appreciating the design of the Yojimbo, although I may never purchase one. I'm enough of a realist to know that companies have to cater to a variety of tastes, and that, if everything in any catalog fit mine, the company issuing it would most likely go out of business.
 
I don't know about anyone else, but some of Spyderco's recent offerings have given new life to my interest in the brand. It's good to see the ladybug in plain edge. The Kiwis are helping give new life to the old wharncliffe blade...and the Maddox!!! :cool: A different twist on the ulu that fills an empty niche. If you've never had to do the one arm thing (which I don't recommend:eek: ), you might find it hard to grasp this concept. I'll definitely be picking up a Maddox, Kiwi, and a Kopa when it becomes available.
I'm not really into the butterfly and karambit scene, but Sal and company have given those who are something different to consider.
Spyderco has always been on the cutting edge of innovation in the cutlery industry. I don't see them stepping down anytime soon.

Paul
 
The compression lock and the dozier "top lock" are not the same thing at all.

i think that the first to come out with a persian was the persians and the kerambit has already been done by the Filipinos. Besides you ever handled an emerson? (i never thought that i could so love and hate a knife at the same time as i do emersons).
 
I just had to reply that i too both love and hate emersons. I've always been a spydie guy, but bought a commander thinking it was the "perfect" knife. Still carry my native. But for some reason still love that emerson, despite qc that doesnt come close to a spydie worth a tenth as much.
 
Hi Brownshoe. I'm sorry that you are disappointd in our innovative offerings.

Knives have been around longer than any other tool except perhaps the "club". I guess the only possible inovation in the past 50,000 years could be a "folding knife", but it's not really all that innovative, "just a fixed blade knife that folds".

Just my opinion, but,

Our Compression lock has never been produced before by any other company. It was given a patent, someone thought it was innovative. How many lock patents do you think have come out in the past 5 years?

Ball bearing lock has never been done...

Retractable glass breaker has never...

Wire clips have never...

Maddox has never been...

Cobra hood has never...

Warren Thomas' Kerambit is fastened with two "D" nuts, never seen that...

I've never seen anything that resembles a Kiwi before.

Ed Schempps Persian is an excellent version of the 1,000 year old design. (Ernie really didn't innovate it). In strength, quality, performance, and style, I think ours is competitive.

I've not seen any bali by any company that looks like ours. At least not in the 200 years that they've been around (Benchmade did not invent the bali either).

I can see where you may not "like" our offerings, there are others that do not like our designs. But I believe our innovative offerings are at least on a par with other companies.

What would you consider to be innovative and from what other companies?


sal
 
Originally posted by brownshoe

- ATR is a sebenza with a strange shaped blade and a compression lock.
Click to expand...

What an odd comment. The only aspects of the ATR which compare to the Sebenza are the blade and handle materials. Everything else is completely different. No similarities, at all, in construction, design, lock or shape.

Overall, Spyderco is one of the most inventive production knife companies there is. I only own a few, but I am always amazed at Spyderco's ability to innovate and improve.
 
Just think of the different locking
mechanisms Spyderco has
represented/invented in one catalog.

You're a hard man to impress.

(Sure, Angelina Jolie has lips,
but Ruth Buzzi had lips first)
;)
Doc
 
I kind of wish that Spyderco was not so innovative. It would save me a lot of money. Though I have many knives, Spyderco continues to attract my attention because of their innovation and quality. They continue to introduce new knives and act as the trendsetter for the cutlery industry. The only frustration that I have is that because of the nasty copy-oriented competition, we don't see all of the creative developments in the Spyderco R&D department. Keeping in mind that unlike some other knife companies that talk the talk of innovation and quality and than use 420 steel for blades, (and make lots of money at it), Spyderco has always strived to use the best steel and the most cutting-edge technology out there. Spyderco uses the steel that other companies use for blades in their liners. It is not something that they brag about. They don't blow their horn over cutting through stacks of cardboard. They put the knives on quantitative testing equipment so they know it'd good before it goes out.
Spyderco is a small company that remains under the control of the founder of the company. Unlike others, they have not sold out to larger companies. Perhaps because of this they can introduce new technologies that they developed before others. They also have to run a tight ship so you won't see a lot of flashy knives that are not well tested or dressed for the show only.
I don't work for Spyderco, nor do I receive anything from them other than an occasional catalog or pin. I do have a lot of respect for them based on the realization that the cutlery industry today is brutal. To keep a small innovative company going that is being attacked from the bottom with cheap Chinese rip-off copies and from the side from larger companies that make small changes in Spyderco's designs and then flood the market takes a great deal of willpower and integrity. That is why I buy Spyderco knives.

Spyderwa (Proud owner of 123 Spyderco knives)

Rare Spydercos
www.angelfire.com/trek/spyderwa
 
To me, innovation this year is more about evolution rather than revolution. Look at how many of their designs are improved for this year, not to mention that they are executing requests from their ELUs (re-released Calypso Jr.). Mr. Glesser & the Spyderco Team are sticking behind their designs, and maturing them. We all realize that there is no "wonder/do-it-all" knife, but they are trying to make each design as perfect as possible (given that it is still viable in a market, i.e. not discontinued).

I certainly appreciate their price-points in relation to materials & quality -- that's innovative to me.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe

1 Emerson came out with the persian and karambit before spyderco. In my opinion it looks like he did it better.
2 The spyderfly is just a retread of the benchmade balisongs, which was also redone by cold steel and microtech before spyderco. The spyderco design looks weird, but not really innovative.
3 Rescue knives looked new, until i realized that the glass breaker and whistle idea has done by others before.
4 ATR is a sebenza with a strange shaped blade and a compression lock.
5 The compression lock is a lot like Doziers "top lock" and in many ways just a slight re-think of a liner a/o frame lock. My experience with the compression lock, is it's a pain to undo and not an improvement.
6 The cobra hood is just a thumbdisk originally done terzuola.
7 The SPOT and DODO have the same old twisted spyderco blade. Never liked it...still don't.
8 The SPOT with thumbhole was done before by Emerson, CRKT and S&W.
9 The military is aka as benchmade's ascent. There's been a "para-ascent" around for years.
Click to expand...
1. Ok, granted, that's personal opinion. I have no interest in the kerambit, and IMO the Spyderco Persian looks better than EKI's. Besides my experience with EKI doesn't let me trust their liner lock, while Spyderco's are fully trustable with the 2 that I've seen with an consistantly great lockup.
2. Spyderfly doesn't look like the BM balisong, nor does Microtech's looks like BM. The definition of a balisong limits how different balisongs can be. They'll always have a blade with two handles that can swing back to encase the blade. That just won't ever change for a balisong.
3. A fair comment, but I don't trust the other companies as much. Name the item that you've seen before, and I can give you my subjective comment on their version.
4. ATR doesn't look remotely close to the Sebenza, and I personally think Sebenza are overpriced. (Flame me CRK fans)
5. Another comment that seems fair. You're entitled to your own opinion to a lock. It looks kinda like the tab lock from dozier, but I have seen a schematic to make a better comment. I have no problems closing my salsa, nor ever cut myself closing it. It's a bit quirkier I admit, but it's less prone to slipping like the liner locks, and I think it's a good trade-off. I'm not in a hurry to close a knife, but I sure damn well want it lock open.
6. Fair comment. I'm neutral about it.
7. The twisted blade, or reverse-S shape does allow a fine tip and great slicing. It also looks pretty cool for me. You don't like it, It's fair.
8. OK
9. It's funny that you accuse the military as BM's ascent. I see more people accuse BM's ascent as a copy of the Endura/Delica than the other way around. Also I see more unfavourable comments about the Ascents than the Endura/Delica/Military.
I mean a lot of things here is a fair comment for a subjective look at the catalogue, but I think you've also left out some stuff that others are mentioning. I don't think the catalogue will turn me off from buying from spyderco.
 
I liked the 2004 line-up. All those odd looking new types. All looking very different then existing similair models. Can't wait to get the para-military!

oh, calyth, as you requested :D

:mad::mad:sebenza's are not overpriced-you probably don't own one-demand has always been higher then supply-...etc...:mad::mad:

;)
Ted
 
Compression lock is a pain to undo?? All you do is use your thumb & push it to the right!!:D Perhaps,you should start exercising if your thumb is that weak!!
Jim
 
Originally posted by brownshoe

- The compression lock is a lot like Doziers "top lock" and in many ways just a slight re-think of a liner a/o frame lock. My experience with the compression lock, is it's a pain to undo and not an improvement.
Click to expand...

Another somewhat odd comment. I think you are oversimplifying the differences in locks. Also, how on earth is the compression lock a pain to undo? It is extremely simple and quite safe(little chance of accidental closing of the blade when twisting). Also the compression lock works quite different than a frame lock. They are completely different (other than the fact they both act as locks). I am not saying the compression lock is better than the frame lock. I am saying that they operate in a very different fashion.

I have not tested the strength of the Compression Lock, but I am curious as to why you presume it is not "an improvement". Please let us know the results of your tests. That would be very interesting.

It also seems odd how you can compare the Cobra Hood to a thumb disk. The cobra hood is contoured around the blade spine and works with the thumb hole, not instead of it. Also it acts as a thumb rest for certain knife maneuvers. And it seems to work extremely well.
 
I guess I stand corrected and appear to be the only one who isn't bowled over by the new catalog. Every year I'd find something I had to have in the new catalog, but couldn't this year. Usually it was that way with the benchmade catalog...now I want the new Mel Pardue, even if it's in 440C.

Didn't know wire clips were new. I guess that because I own a Q which has had wire clips for years.

Maybe the retractable part of the glass breaker is new, but not the glassbreaker knife combo. That's been done by at least two other firms for a number of years.

The Maddox is interesting, but I am not one handed. I do however know a lot of people with arthritis and have been looking of a good specialized kitchen knife for arthitic hands. Maddox won't work because it has to be gripped, a knife with a thumb hole is needed.

Hey the spyderco balisong may look weird, but it still flips and certainly ain't new after cold steel and microtech have already come out with their offers. Syperco's just at the end of the line. Benchmade certainly didn't invent the blade, but their offering is a justified classic. The persian and karambit style has been around for awhile, spyderco is repeating a competitor's current line...is it just me or do others find the Emerson product more appealing?

By the way, the cobra hood is simply a thumb disk wrapped around the spyerco hump...thank terzuola. When they came out, (last year?) I thought it was an admission by spyderco that they may be losing sales by sticking to the hole. By the way, I like holes, hate hoods, won't buy a knife with a hood, and I don't like unfilled screw holes in the top of the blade.

The kiwi is just a warncliffe...big deal. Maybe for spyderco it's unusual since it's not a wide blade, but innovative???
 
Originally posted by Ken Cox
I haven't seen the new catalog yet.
Does it include the new Chinook II?

I find the Spyderfly about as different from the balisong, regardless of who makes it, as a balisong can get and still meet the definition of a balisong.

I like the Dodo.
I see that whole family of ergonomics unique to Spyderco and an obvious in hindsight innovation.

I see the SPOT as the perfection of a concept.
The first guy to perfection wins. :)

How ironic: I see Spyderco as the single most innovative knife designer/manufacturer on the planet.
Everything they do shouts evolutionary breakthrough.

I wonder if brownshoe just wanted to get some controversy going.
It seems to me they have a name for that.** :)
Click to expand...

**Italics in the final sentence are mine, for emphasis.

Ken, I do believe that you have hit the nail square on the head with those final sentences.
 
Left cold? No. Extremely pleased to see the continued high standard of quality, excellence and customer service? Yes.

I'll be kind and simply offer that I think BS's remarks lack credibility.
 
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