New Diesel emissions problems?

S

Sid Post

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Oct 14, 1998
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My car was totaled so, now I'm down to public transport or my little KLX-250S. I'm finally up and around enough to do some serious pickup/car shopping (thanks to some really good pain meds :().

I have heard mixed things about the new 3/4 ton heavy duty diesel picks having problems with emissions hardware. Have the "bugs" been worked out or, should I shop for a used 2007 model without the low sulfur emissions stuff that happened in 2008?

I have looked at a Dodge PowerWagon and a few large gas powered Sport'utes. However, I really want to stay away from 12MPG vehicles. :eek:

I also don't want a small gas miser. The number of unlicensed, uninsured, and out right reckless drivers puts me in harms way everyday so, I need to keep the laws of physics on my side for the next hit-and-run, sideswipe, or rear end collision.
 
Things have quieted down a good bit about the new diesels, although I haven't been reading as much to know about it either.
I'm fairly certain that the mileage still hasn't matched the 07 and earlier trucks though.
If I could find an 07 I liked, I'd buy it over an 08, but I doubt there are too many choices left without hitting the used market and then you have to worry about maintenance, and tuners and that whole mess.
 
I've got an 02 Dodge 4x4 with the Cummins. When I took it in to the shop I was talkin to the service guy and he told me that for Dodge, the 07's were absolutely the worst year they have had. Supposedly they are havin less problems with the 08's. I had thought about getting a new one but everyone I talk to says to keep mine its a better truck.
I do like that new truck with leather interior smell though :D


Its a problem for all the manufacturers these days, tryin to keep the power up and still meet emissions.

I drive truck, and even the big diesels are having problems meeting emissions and getting the power out them that people want..
Its so bad that supposedly Cat is going to quit making truck engines after 09.
 
a bud has a '08 3/4 ton dodge 4X4 with the cummins and he hasnt had any probs with it, and he drives a lot, i bet it has near 40k or 50K miles on it now, but one con is the gas mileage, he gets ~ 13 or so in town, and with deisal at $4+ a gallon thats not a good thing lol, especially if ya put a lotta miles on one like he does, i was with him last week and he filled it up and it was over $150:eek: - and i thought $60 to fill up my 'vette with premium was bad lol.

but my bud hasnt had any probs with it at all with anything, he did have to replace the front disc pads a while back, but thats it.

its a nice truck and drives very well, esp for a big truck like that, i drove it to laredo a few weeks ago (~230 miles) and it was great.
 
I was just given a new 07 Dodge 2500 2wd with the 6.7 cummins for my work truck. It has big utility bed on it. I am getting 17/18 mpg on the highway and about 13/14ish in the city. I think that rocks for as big it is and its the crew cab four door. The engine is a beast sooooo much torque, with 350 horsepower and 650 lb.-ft. of torque you sure feel it. I have 10k on it in a month no problems so far.
-Eric
 
The idea of Cat not making truck engines because of power/emissions issue is silly. They have been making igh powered common rail diesels for boats for several years. Any emissions problems that US car makers are having is because they didn't do their homework and prepare for this change to ultra low sulphur fuel. As for truck engine companies, this bodes well for Detroit Disels as they have been using MTU engines instead of the old 2 stroke GM blocks for a number of years. The Europeans didn't seem to have any problems, which is why their are selling common rail deisels over here, albeit in small numbers. But htat will change I suspect once people actually drive something like a Jetta TDI and see how much more peppy and drivable it is compared to a Prius. the milagew differnce, etc wil be even more noticaable compared to gas models when BMW starts selling the deisel X5 and if VW can make enough of the diesel Tiguans to bring them into the US.
 
jdm61 said:
The idea of Cat not making truck engines because of power/emissions issue is silly. They have been making igh powered common rail diesels for boats for several years.
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Yes but if I'm not mistaken boats don't fall under the same emissions standards as trucks..
I mentioned it was a rumor, however the info came from both a Cat service tech and a Kenworth salesman... Must be somethin goin on..
Supposedly they were going to completely redesign the engines and come out with a totally new one in 2010 or 2011.

The new Cats we have in our 07 Kenworths have been nothin but a pain in the ass, plus they get lousy mileage and are heavier than Detroits or Cummins....
 
Did the 2007 6.7L CTD Dodge pickups get the low sulfur emissions stuff? I found a 2007 5.9LL with 20K miles but, it was a regular cab from a smoker so I'm going to pass on it and hold out for something with space behind the cab.

With a $0.70 per gallon premium for diesel, at 13/14MPG city the expense is almost in the single digits for an equivalent gas engine model. 19MPG highway makes it tolerable because very little of my driving is stop and go in town driving. Most of my driving is ~45MPH with very few stoplights with most weekends being longer distances at ~80MPH on the Interstate.
 
Yes. The 6.7 was Dodge's new engine designed to meet the 2010 specs and burn the extra low sulfer fuel. If you want an engine that doesn't have the new emissions stuff, you have to get the 5.9.

Most of the problems that I've read are due to the regeneration cycles and associated electronics. I'm sure they'll work them out soon, but I'm always leery of new technology. Interestingly enough, if you want to get away from the problematic regen, some makers (Benz) are putting urea tanks in, and using that technology, which works better than the regen. Plus, all you have to do to fill it is drink coffee or beer. :D Honda just recently figured out how to make urea on the fly without the need to have a urea tank. Once this gets developed, I'll bet all these problems will be history.
 
The only ones that I hear about having problems with the regen is ford. I also heard that CAT is getting out of the automotive market, now only Industrial.
 
Caterpillar is for a fact no longer certifying engines for the class 8 market in the US after 2009 (per 2010 emissions certification) They will continue manufacturing all the same engine classes they are now, so parts & support will still be available. The US class 8 market is a small percentage of their worldwide operation & was simply determined to not be worth the investment; that & truck makers are (Navistar & Paccar) are both bringing out their own engine lines for their trucks, although Navistar & Caterpillar are partnering up, Cat will be involved in their engines & Navistar is helping Cat bring out a larger industrial (off-road) truck line.
 
we are going thru injectors like crazy with the big 5 ton........the ULSD wreaks havoc with the injectors. The mech directed us to use an aftermarket fuel additive designed for ULSD fuels (we use Hoppes additive in the yellow bottle)

from what we've been told, the new ULSD fuels are less "lubricious" than the old diesel fuel, and it can cause much faster wear on the injectors
 
The process of removing the sulphur also removed most of the lubricity, from what I've read. The diesel providers were supposed to add that back in, sounds like they haven't.
 
Once again, this is a case of he US engine manufacturers being alseep at the wheel. ALL of the major players, including Cat and Cummins, are getting horsepower figures in the range of 70hp per liter out of large peasure boat common rail engines at speeds of around 2400 rpm. This is in the same range as what the small Euro car engines get at 4000+ rpm. And yet Cat is talking about having to redesign their engines? All this means is that guys like Detroit (MTU) and MAN will pick up over-the-road market share because they have already made the swtich to low sulphur fuels in Europe.
 
Sid Post said:
I also don't want a small gas miser. The number of unlicensed, uninsured, and out right reckless drivers puts me in harms way everyday so, I need to keep the laws of physics on my side for the next hit-and-run, sideswipe, or rear end collision.
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Why not get something with proper dynamics and braking and harness the laws of physics to avoid an impact event in the first place? There are much better solutions to automotive safety than simply throwing mass at the problem.

Do you really need the towing or payload capabilities of a truck?

Something like a used Mercedes W210 E-class has vastly better dynamics, gets better mileage, is built and finished to a higher standard, and weighs nearly two tons; which should prove adequate to play bumper cars with most anything on the road if it ever comes to that.

As for diesels, from conversations with engineer friends who worked directly on the program I can tell you that the Ford 6.0 liter diesel is an absolute basket case and I recommend that nobody buy one.
 
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