New Forge Build WIP, advice needed as per.

duffy99

duffy99

Joined
Apr 2, 2011
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I'm planning on building a bigger and better forge , I picked up these 2 for possible frames . The red one has holes cut into it with an angle grinder bu there is about 16-18" free on it . The white one is bigger but free of holes in the body, I also have like 4 fan blowers and 6 motors now 5 are 1/3hp and one is 3/4 hp. I was thinking of using the big one for a disc sander and one of the furnace blowers for my dust collector. But I'll still have a blower for the forge . For lining I have ceramic wool and 3000f refractory cement. Also I have a PID and thermocouple coming this week and all the pipe and valves/ pressure gauges and regulators to do 2 forges. I'm thinking of using the white one for the frame and possibly in the future making a vertical one through and through with the red one . Can you go ceramic wool then cement in the interior ? I was thinking of having a 6" circumference going back maybe 18" or more . With a blower how large of glory hole is possible using propane ? Also which frame should I use and thoughts on the lining. I know that buying ITC-100 and going cement , wool, itc would probably be best but I've seen a ceramic wool / cement one that has being used for 6 years without issue . Also I'll build a frame for it. with the forge on top and blower on the bottom out of square tubing. This project will probably take a month to complete but I'll try to remember to take pictures along the way. I got a huge order of belts for my new grinder yesterday evening so now I can really start using it and all I want to do is grind , grind , grind right now. Not fix dust collectors and build forges .



 
I would use the white one, cut about 16" - 18" from the top and then weld sheet steel on for a bottom. Cut the top off and use it as a door with the hole as a pass through for smaller pieces. These two threads should help out with the lining question. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/881775-WIP-Dual-blown-burner-Forge and http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/879319-Finalizing-details-of-my-first-forge. I am going to be building my second forge in the next couple of weeks and will be following along those lines.
 
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Looks like you have most of what you need. A six inch diameter chamber will handle most anything. Make sure and go on the plus side with the forced air you can always restrict it but you can't increase it. Post some pics as you progress.

The two links above have some good information.

Fred
 
Thanks for the links I've been studying other forge build threads I'm going to go with the white one hadn't thought about dual burners but now I figure why not, can you do without ITC-100 ? Would thinned out 3000f cement work on top of ceramic wool or go wool then cement ? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay $65 plus shipping for a pint of it .
 
With a blown burner, I don't see the need for multiple burners, unless maybe you're making a huge forge for decorative metal work or such? Am I missing something?

I reach welding temps for normal sized stuff (san-mai, etc.) running 7-9psi and the blower heavily restricted, in my vertical, with 2" cerachem blanket and ~3/4" kast-o-lite 30, and it'll easily handle full sized damascus stacks with the psi cranked up around 15, patience not required. That's without ITC-100, so a good design shouldn't need it, IMHO.

Also, I'm only using like a 65cfm centrifugal blower from surplus center as my air supply, although one of the two I got seems like it's not going to last very long.

I'm using 2" BIP reduced to 1.5" using a bell reducer btw. I know alot people reduce down to 1", I'm not sure how that affects things, but it would seem to require a larger blower to get the same throughput.
 
Duffy the one I"m using is like 1/25th hp I think. So yeah, it should be more than enough assuming it's the correct type. Different blower styles deliver air differently, and some aren't suitable. However, air throughput required for a the usual type of forced air burner we use, isn't nearly as high as required for a coal forge.
 
javand said:
Duffy the one I"m using is like 1/25th hp I think. So yeah, it should be more than enough assuming it's the correct type. Different blower styles deliver air differently, and some aren't suitable. However, air throughput required for a the usual type of forced air burner we use, isn't nearly as high as required for a coal forge.
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I want it large enough to do a machete so 18-20 inches long and 6 " circumference.I'm going to line with wool and then have an 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" layer of refractory 3000f cement . I'll use a mold out of cardboard with saran wrap on it . The floor will be insulated firebricks and I'll cut off the top of the tank for a lid I'm envisioning. It'll be on a cart made with steel tubing . I don't have a welder so that might cause some issues with the build. Just more nuts and bolts I guess. I know my mini- forge with the hairdryer blower on it's lowest setting can get welding hot so the furnace blower should do . Air and gas valves and I have a regulator that goes from 3-35 psi . I'm just wondering if a single burner 4 " from the back on a tangent will suffice . I have the pipes to make a 2 burner or save that stuff for a vertical forge. The threads are great source of info . Also anything Stacy tells me or has written I now believe fully. I picked up a 175lbs circular 15" wide and 9 " high piece of steel today with legs welded on , I payed $20 for it . And I also broke my big toe and sprained my foot and ankle getting out of bed in the middle of the night , fun times.
 
My welding forge has a 6 inch dia. working area it is 20 inches long. I run three burners. I have individual controls for each burner and have tried running one, two and then three burners. Since the length of the working area is 20 inches I find that running three burners gives me a more even heat throughout the length of the working area. This forge has a 150 cfm pole blower to supply the forced air. It runs full out when I am working @ 2350 [welding temperature.] We use wellhead gas in our forges and keep the pressure @ 5 psi.

Both my forges use ITC-100 coating on the surface of the forges clay coating. ITC-100 makes the forge run more efficiently. You'll use less gas. The forge will heat up more quickly.

Keep us posted and post pictures, Fred
 
There is so much info out there hard to decide which to do . I can get a product called Rigidizer that's similar to ITC but it's only 2500f but it's a 3rd of the cost. After coming home from the hospital I went into the basement shop to see one of my fluorescent lights fell and shattered , that's 2 lights in one weekend.
 
The rigidizer is only for Ceramic Fiber insulation that you're not planning on coating with satanite, mizzou, kast-o-lite, or whatever other refractory material. If you're using one of those products, like you indicated you were planning, it's useless.

Plistix IR that Wayne Coe sells, is the only direct competitor to ITC-100 that I'm aware of, and it's much cheaper than ITC-100, although Ed Caffrey did a test and said he didn't think it was nearly as effective. He also seemed to indicate however, that his forge had trouble getting large damascus billets up to welding temp without ITC-100 though, and that hasn't been my experience. Maybe it's just cause it's cold as piss up in Montana, or maybe I mis-understood his post.

You can always coat with ITC-100 later if you feel your forge isn't efficient enough. Best way to avoid in-efficiency, is to not try to build a forge big enough for a battleship. You can forge any length blade you want in a forge 2" long that's open on both ends, you just might have a hard time HT'ing with it. Once you burn $100+ of propane in a day with a giant forge that's easy to HT in however, you may seriously re-evaluate your priorities. That's an exaggeration of course, but we seriously go through a 100lb tank a day making billets no problem.

I struggled with wanting to build the super Cadillac of forges myself recently, but eventually realized, you can waste more money trying to build the perfect, most versatile, do-everything forge in the world, that you would building 10 specialty forges that each do one thing really well. With the vertical, and a long channeled Lively style charcoal forge, I haven't found anything I can't handle.
 
Ok this is may seem simple but what is the best way of making a cement mold and applying cement to get it to make an even layer? The next 2 days are going to be warm and might be my last chance to get the forge cemented before it's cold here. I plan to make a mold out of cardboard and cover it with saran wrap then have the forge body vertical and goop it in . Does that sound right ? Should I apply a lubricant to the cardboard/ saran wrap?
 
Cure the cement very slowly. A light bulb inside the forge will give you enough heat to do the job. Even though the tendency is to keep working on your forge, letting the cement dry for four or five days will pay off in the end.
Hows your motor project going?

Fred
 
I'm using 3000f refractory cement thanks for the link, as for the grinder it's down until I get a drive wheel. I have the new motor wired and it has zero hours on it and it sounds good.


Fred.Rowe said:
Cure the cement very slowly. A light bulb inside the forge will give you enough heat to do the job. Even though the tendency is to keep working on your forge, letting the cement dry for four or five days will pay off in the end.
Hows your motor project going?

Fred
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FWIW, I think ITC 100 is worth it if you have the budget. If not, don't worry about it. But, at least coat any exposed wool with satanite or maybe a light slurry of your cement to keep ceramic dust down.

I tried Plistix 900F, and was not impressed. I don't know if Plistix IR is much different.
 
Salem Straub said:
FWIW, I think ITC 100 is worth it if you have the budget. If not, don't worry about it. But, at least coat any exposed wool with satanite or maybe a light slurry of your cement to keep ceramic dust down.

I tried Plistix 900F, and was not impressed. I don't know if Plistix IR is much different.
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The Plistix was almost impossible to apply. It kept falling off the surface. Good advice on putting the slurry on the surface of the wool. The wool is really hard on your lungs.
 
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