New Guy heat treat question

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R2ks

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May 4, 2015
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My first two knives, I've read a lot and watched videos on different steps, including heat treat. Small brick forge with Map gas from the side, using 440c stainless 1/8" thick, and other with plain carbon steel. I get dull red to bright orange, I hold for a few minutes, then oil quench... I did this three times, still magnetic, file bites. I've researched issue, can't get what I'm doing wrong. Any suggestions?
 
This setup may be ok for heat treating 01 but for a stainless like 440C you need calibrated, precise equipment. Checked to make sure of what temperature it can hit. DM
 
R2ks said:
My first two knives, I've read a lot and watched videos on different steps, including heat treat. Small brick forge with Map gas from the side, using 440c stainless 1/8" thick, and other with plain carbon steel. I get dull red to bright orange, I hold for a few minutes, then oil quench... I did this three times, still magnetic, file bites. I've researched issue, can't get what I'm doing wrong. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

You will do better with this in Shop Talk forum where the knife makers hang out. The 440c is a no go in this type of set up. Plain carbon steel can mean anything from 1450 to 1650 which is hard to read using just color. Three quenches is not necessary to harden carbon steel. What you're referring to is two normalizing cycles followed by the quench. Check out Shop Talk, lots of good stickies there as well.
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I've read so many articles and watched You Tube for hours trying to understand how to start. Unfortunately, there are people with weak advice - I liked Walter Sorrell videos, thought he did a good presentation, then he suggests a new guy start with 01 or 440c. Naturally I pick the wrong one. Learning on my own the hard way, I know wood, metal is still a foreign language so far. I'm still learning how to navigate this website. On that 440c, by the way, third HT, I held it in the small forge for several minutes at cherry red to orange and still couldn't lose the magnetism. I just went to tempering, there are enough other things I need to learn. I don't know anyone who does this close to proficiently, so after reading and watching, I have to learn on my own. Thanks for your advice on material to use.
 
Heat treating is not seat of the pants work. It's precise instruments. Can you hold your oven at 1900* for 20 mins.? Not merely about like by magnet testing. Here's some heat treating formulas that may help. Buck Knives will heat treat as well as Phoenix Heat Treaters. There's not many that will do it. DM
http://ajh-knives.com/metals.html
 
I knew nothing when I started 16 years ago. Like you, I knew wood, metal was a mystery. knife Dogs website, go to Kevin Cashens heat treat forum. Theres a huge amount of info there. Try http://cashenblades.com he has his on site. Hes a top metallurgist knife maker and speaks knife makers heat treating very well. One suggestion that will make it easier for you; get some 1084 steel. Its quite forgiving in heat treating and is an excellent knife steel. O1 takes soak time at temp to heat treat properly.

Don't get discouraged you will grasp it. Metallurgy is complex but the basics are quite easy, so keep at. You'll look back on this in a year or so and smile.

Regards, Fred
 
Thanks, then 1084 it is. I have to believe there are a lot of people doing this that can't measure temps with instruments - my brick forge and a toaster oven aren't NASA qualified. I'm trying to find one or two decent metals and get to know them. Stuff you do when you're retired and hiding from your significant other. I'll look at those websites.
 
R2ks said:
Thanks, then 1084 it is. I have to believe there are a lot of people doing this that can't measure temps with instruments - my brick forge and a toaster oven aren't NASA qualified. I'm trying to find one or two decent metals and get to know them. Stuff you do when you're retired and hiding from your significant other. I'll look at those websites.
Click to expand...

The 1084 will work well for you. Its one of those steels you can use a magnet to check when it goes through the phase change and is ready to put in the quench oil. When the magnet wont stick, let it stay in the heat another minute or so, then quench. Aldo Bruno can supply you with the 1084 steel. Google New Jersey Steel Baron.

Good luck and enjoy, Fred
 
1060,1075,1080 as well as 1084 all work well, 1095 is a bit harder to do I use the atlas mini forge and have excellent results. I did a searles bowie in 1084 and another in 5160 both came out well. the 1084 was stock removal and the 5160 was forged. the one from 5160 is my favorite, I scrapped a lot of silver for the ferrule, guard and pommel, sporting an ebony handle as well.aldo is a good source for any carbon steel as well as some others he carries. I deal with him on all my steel. good luck with your quest been doing it for over 40 yrs now. every hunter around here is either carrying one or wants one of my knives.
 
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