New Guy w/ rookie question. Esee 4 vs. Survive! GSO 4.1

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Fighting Irish

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Mar 6, 2013
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Like I said, I'm new and just starting to learn about different steels (pros, cons, purpose, etc.). I'm specifically looking at buying a fixed blade in either the Esee 4 or the GSO 4.1 from Survive!. I'll be using the knife as a camp knife, for hunting/skinning, some bushcraft and any other tasks I may come across.

I like the looks of both knives, but am not sure which steel will better suit my needs. Provide a comparison of the steel of these two knives (Rowen 1095 vs. CPM-3V or M-390). Pro's, cons, limitations, ideal purposes, etc.

Where else do the two knives differ?

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse w/ this post, but the search didn't lead me to the specific answers I seek.

Thanks for the advice and awesome forum here.
 
One reason your search didn't give you much is the fact that the GSO-4.1 completed production THIS WEEK, so those involved in the pre-order are getting their knives in their hands THIS WEEK, i.e. they aren't out there yet.

Here is a link to a direct comparison between the ESEE-4 and GSO-4.1 predecessor, the EDC-4: http://jungletraining.com/forums/showthread.php?19651-Survive!-Knives-EDC-4

The primary difference you will experience between these knives is handle comfort, in which there is hardly a comparison as the ESEE handles are NOT comfortable. Ergonomics did not play a big role in designing the ESEE-4 whereas it clearly did in the EDC-4 and GSO-4.1. The GSO-4.1 also has a skeletonized tang, so it should be lighter than the ESEE-4.
In terms of steel selection, ESEE's 1095 at 55 - 57 Rc, even with an exceptional heat treatment, hardly compares to M390, Elmax, or CPM-3V at 60 Rc from Peters HT. Corrosion resistance, wear-resistance, and yes even toughness are VASTLY superior in the latter steels. That is not to say that 1095 as treated by Rowen doesn't perform, it certainly gets the job done and is easy to resharpen (which will be required fairly often if you cut a lot of hard or abrasive material and aren't fond of dull knives). Even the new stainless ESEE-4 will not perform like these steels. The GSO-4.1 will still retain its edge longer in any cutting task.

1095 is superior to the latter steels in one aspect - price. 1095 is among the cheapest steels available. Rowen gives it a good heat treatment, excellent blade coating (to prevent corrosion), micarta slabs, and a nice sheath set-up. Survive! offers superior materials and design, but it is more expensive. Mora also offers a great blade at a budget price. What are you willing to pay for?

Any limitation of the GSO-4.1 is only increased in the ESEE-4, primarily due to handle design and blade steel.


EDIT: I forgot to add, Go IRISH! (former resident of St. Edward's Hall)
 
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Survive! knives seem well made, and I like the design and materials. However, ESEE has been around for a while longer and their knives have a great track record (as well as an awesome warranty). I'd get both, as a knife addict should, but the ESEE-4 would be my first choice.

1095 isn't as fancy as CPM-3V (lovely steel, by the way) or M390, but it's and excellent performer and ESEE knows how to get the most out of it. Plus it probably helps keep the price of the knife down, last I checked an ESEE-4 can be had for about $110, while the GSO 4.1 costs about $190.

It looks like Survive! puts together a good tool, but I'll wait a bit before I order one of their knives (although I'm very tempted to get one). And if I didn't already own an ESEE-4, I'd get one of those first.
 
rwdata said:
I agree one hundred percent, great explanation. :)
Click to expand...

As do I, especially about ESEE-3 and ESEE-4 handles being uncomfortable. For me, at least, I'd have to factor in the cost of T-K-C aftermarket handles if I decided to buy either one.
 
Well I don't agree about ESEE handles. They are not very big I'll say that. But I find them very comfortable. They use a very simple shape like the old Green River knives with an integral guard. There are a legion of ESEE fans out there. I've never had one rust with care (they certainly will without some care) and they take and hold a scary sharp edge. ESEE offers a lot of knife for $100. I'd love to have one in S3V but that's just not going to happen. Get a Koster for about 2.5x the price for a nice knife in 3V.

I am not doubting the direct, personal experience of those who've posted before me. But be assured that a LOT of people like ESEE and the ergonomics of same...A LOT!
 
I appreciate the perspective. So I'm gathering the difference between Cpm-3v and 1095 is blade hardness and toughness in favor of 3v.

Is Cpm-3v more likely to chip, curl or break than 1095?
 
Fighting Irish said:
I appreciate the perspective. So I'm gathering the difference between Cpm-3v and 1095 is blade hardness and toughness in favor of 3v.

Is Cpm-3v more likely to chip, curl or break than 1095?
Click to expand...

Maybe if the heat treat didn't go well or the heat treat was run a little too hard, but it sounds like Survive is aiming for the softer side with their 3V (59HRC) I have a couple 3V blades at 60-61 and have not had any chipping or other damage during use. Since these are going to Peter's Heat Treat I wouldn't expect them to have any problems with heat treat at all. 1095 might roll a bit (which is easier to sharpen out than chips) where 3V wouldn't show any damage, but both steels are quite strong.
 
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